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#4498114 - 08/25/17 08:14 PM HDEO Detergents?
BigJohn Offline


Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 884
Loc: Colorado
Let me admit something..... I'm kind of a "binge BITOG'er"..... I will focus in on the forum for a couple of weeks or months.... and then I disappear for a few months. Problem is.... every time I come back, I feel that I am a little remedial.....

So here is my 'remedial' question..... that I never thought of until now.

HDEO's..... Everyone can agree that these oils have a TON.....a TON of detergents.

Is there anything about super high detergent levels that are not good for a bike?

* How about for a bike that is new?

* How about for a bike that is 13 years old and has 75k miles on it?

* How about a 250cc dirt bike that needs a ring job....sometime soon?

The reason I am asking..... is there any application where HDEO's in motorcycles isn't a good idea because of their detergents?


.........


Edited by BigJohn (08/25/17 08:16 PM)
_________________________
'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Rotella T6 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40

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#4498167 - 08/25/17 09:07 PM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Never had a problem.
I ran a 1999 Suzuki VZ800 Marauder to 83,000 miles on the cheapest 15W-40 I could find (usually Super Tech)
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4498176 - 08/25/17 09:14 PM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 3028
Loc: USA
It's not just HDEO that has high detergent. Any of the newer full synthetic PCMOs will have 2000+ ppm of calcium like Pennzoil Platinum.

These detergents have not shown to adversely affect motorcycles.

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#4498270 - 08/26/17 12:11 AM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 580
Loc: NJ, USA
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.

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#4498319 - 08/26/17 03:39 AM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist]
AMC Offline


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 899
Loc: South Eastern, CT
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


If that was the case, wouldn't oil pressures be much lower also? I don't know about that one.....

Studying VOA's of HDEO's and most Motorcycle/ATV oils that are out there, they are usually pretty similar in additive packs. Much more detergents and other additives compared to regular PCMO for sure. if you want a lower additve package HDEO or PCMO, try Valvoline or Napa brand oils.... kind of funny but true.... crazy

The other thing to remember is that PCMO is engineered with so many environmental protection concerns involved that additive use is limited and engine longevity almost gets lost in translation. HDEO is slowly going that way but is not nearly as far along or strict about it as PCMO.

I too have been using HDEO (Rotella, Delo or Delvac) almost exclusively in motorcycles (wet clutch) and small engines (all types) for a long time now. No engine or clutch problems / issues to report.
_________________________
18 Honda CR-V - Factory Fill
17 Ram 1500 SLT - Napa Synthetic 5w-20
14 Yamaha Super Tenere - Delvac 15w-40

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#4498553 - 08/26/17 10:28 AM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2106
Loc: Slovenia EU
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


I am constantly using shell ultra diesel (your PP euro....diesel?) in my gaser (because I want to buy one oil for both hyundais)...didnt notice ANY problem so far
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40

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#4498807 - 08/26/17 04:20 PM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15843
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


So OTR diesel engines don't need a good ring seal while SI engines do?
This piece makes no sense. The rings neither know nor care what method of ignition an engine uses.
I've never noticed that performance was "devastated" in SI engines I've used HDEOs in.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

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#4500156 - 08/28/17 09:10 AM Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 580
Loc: NJ, USA
As I said, I've never seen any evidence of it before. I just thought I'd share the article that speaks directly about the OP's question. Machinery Lubrication is usually a pretty spot-on publication, but that article did get a raised eyebrow the first time I read it.

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