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HDEO Detergents? #4498114
08/25/17 08:14 PM
08/25/17 08:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
BigJohn Offline OP
BigJohn  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
Let me admit something..... I'm kind of a "binge BITOG'er"..... I will focus in on the forum for a couple of weeks or months.... and then I disappear for a few months. Problem is.... every time I come back, I feel that I am a little remedial.....

So here is my 'remedial' question..... that I never thought of until now.

HDEO's..... Everyone can agree that these oils have a TON.....a TON of detergents.

Is there anything about super high detergent levels that are not good for a bike?

* How about for a bike that is new?

* How about for a bike that is 13 years old and has 75k miles on it?

* How about a 250cc dirt bike that needs a ring job....sometime soon?

The reason I am asking..... is there any application where HDEO's in motorcycles isn't a good idea because of their detergents?


.........

Last edited by BigJohn; 08/25/17 08:16 PM.

'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Delo 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40
'05 KTM 950 ADV-S, RT4 15w40
Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn] #4498167
08/25/17 09:07 PM
08/25/17 09:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Never had a problem.
I ran a 1999 Suzuki VZ800 Marauder to 83,000 miles on the cheapest 15W-40 I could find (usually Super Tech)


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn] #4498176
08/25/17 09:14 PM
08/25/17 09:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,221
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,221
Where the wind comes sweepin'
It's not just HDEO that has high detergent. Any of the newer full synthetic PCMOs will have 2000+ ppm of calcium like Pennzoil Platinum.

These detergents have not shown to adversely affect motorcycles.

Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn] #4498270
08/26/17 12:11 AM
08/26/17 12:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.

Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist] #4498319
08/26/17 03:39 AM
08/26/17 03:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 941
South Eastern, CT
AMC Offline
AMC  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 941
South Eastern, CT
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


If that was the case, wouldn't oil pressures be much lower also? I don't know about that one.....

Studying VOA's of HDEO's and most Motorcycle/ATV oils that are out there, they are usually pretty similar in additive packs. Much more detergents and other additives compared to regular PCMO for sure. if you want a lower additve package HDEO or PCMO, try Valvoline or Napa brand oils.... kind of funny but true.... crazy

The other thing to remember is that PCMO is engineered with so many environmental protection concerns involved that additive use is limited and engine longevity almost gets lost in translation. HDEO is slowly going that way but is not nearly as far along or strict about it as PCMO.

I too have been using HDEO (Rotella, Delo or Delvac) almost exclusively in motorcycles (wet clutch) and small engines (all types) for a long time now. No engine or clutch problems / issues to report.


18 Honda CR-V - Factory Fill
17 Ram 1500 SLT - Napa Synthetic 5w-20
14 Yamaha Super Tenere - Delvac 15w-40
Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist] #4498553
08/26/17 10:28 AM
08/26/17 10:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,229
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,229
Slovenia EU
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


I am constantly using shell ultra diesel (your PP euro....diesel?) in my gaser (because I want to buy one oil for both hyundais)...didnt notice ANY problem so far


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: MotoTribologist] #4498807
08/26/17 04:20 PM
08/26/17 04:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,126
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,126
OH
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
This article in Machinery Lubrication: Comparing Diesel and Gasoline Engine Oil that says the high detergent levels in HDDEO "devastates performance" by not allowing proper seal between the rings and liner, but I have never seen any evidence of that myself.


So OTR diesel engines don't need a good ring seal while SI engines do?
This piece makes no sense. The rings neither know nor care what method of ignition an engine uses.
I've never noticed that performance was "devastated" in SI engines I've used HDEOs in.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: HDEO Detergents? [Re: BigJohn] #4500156
08/28/17 09:10 AM
08/28/17 09:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
As I said, I've never seen any evidence of it before. I just thought I'd share the article that speaks directly about the OP's question. Machinery Lubrication is usually a pretty spot-on publication, but that article did get a raised eyebrow the first time I read it.


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