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Paying a shop rant........ #4497720
08/25/17 11:11 AM
08/25/17 11:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline OP
demarpaint  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Yesterday was an interesting day. A good friend who lives across the street asked to borrow a couple of sockets to do a brake job. He was a mechanic many years ago and sold off his tools. Now he's starting to dabble a little again. He had tires put on about 6 months ago, and wanted to do a brake job. The moron who installed the tires must of torqued them with a 3/4" impact gun. We had 4 1/2 feet of pipe on a 25" breaker bar to get the lug nuts off. We snapped a good 1/2" drive 3" extension in the process. Then last night about 11:30 my niece calls, her husband had a flat on his way home from work, and was near my house. "He needed a better wrench than the junk that came with the car," was the story. I brought my 1/2" drive impact sockets, 25" breaker bar, my floor jack, and the pipe. We tried the speed wrench first, and snapped the [censored] thing. Out comes the breaker bar and the pipe. He's a 225 lb fireman in good shape. It wouldn't budge. The bow in the breaker bar was a bit unsettling. Before I jumped in with him I asked him if he had roadside assistance. I thought it was worth asking before we jerked around with this thing into the morning. He and my niece completely forgot they had the coverage. WT.... is it with these morons in shops slamming lug nuts home to the point where getting a wheel off is a major chore? Do they really lose money using a little common sense in tightening fasteners? Just another reason why I try my hardest not to go to a shop!

Rant off!


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497725
08/25/17 11:17 AM
08/25/17 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,001
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,001
Canuck living in California
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497733
08/25/17 11:25 AM
08/25/17 11:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,547
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Online content
jeepman3071  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,547
Storrs, Connecticut
My dad ripped a shop a new one when the same thing happened on my sister's 2001 Jetta. She had new tires put on then got a flat tire a week later when she was at school. My dad went to change it (1.5 hours away) and at 6'2 190lbs he couldn't budge the lug nuts standing on a breaker bar.

The shop claimed they put them on with an impact wrench "to ensure they don't come loose for liability reasons". They replaced the tire for free and hand torqued all of the wheels as my dad watched.

One of my friends had a Town Fair Tire snap one of the wheel studs right off on his Ranger. They tried to charge him for a new one claiming "it just broke off". Luckily I haven't had any issues personally with tire shops yet.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (35k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497736
08/25/17 11:28 AM
08/25/17 11:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,571
MA
Wolf359 Online content
Wolf359  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,571
MA
I remember taking mine to a Bj's to get the tires balanced. They got one wheel off, but couldn't get the other ones off so they just gave up. Took it to another shop and they couldn't get the lug nuts off either, but then they switched to a bigger impact wrench and were able to get them off, that was probably the 3/4. Don't know who did it last as I bought the car used and it was the first time I had taken the wheels off.

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497737
08/25/17 11:29 AM
08/25/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,413
San Rafael, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,413
San Rafael, CA
The auto parts store I work at does a lot of delivering of 1-2 lug nuts and studs to this one shop. Very few to any other shops we deliver to. I won't name any names but it's a chain shop. I wonder what the story is there - perhaps they put wheels on with impacts and then they break off when repeat customers come in? IDK...

Last edited by dogememe; 08/25/17 11:29 AM.

2010 Ford Escape 2.5~91K Miles: AMSOIL SS 5W-30, AMSOIL SS FE ATF.
1995 Chevy Silverado 5.7 ~276K Miles: Delo 10W-30, AMSOIL OE MV ATF.
AMSOIL
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497738
08/25/17 11:30 AM
08/25/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,022
TX, USA
JMJNet Offline
JMJNet  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,022
TX, USA
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.


  • 2017 Toyota Sienna
  • 1995 GMC Suburban 6.5L Turbo Diesel


Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: KrisZ] #4497744
08/25/17 11:32 AM
08/25/17 11:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline OP
demarpaint  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: JMJNet] #4497746
08/25/17 11:32 AM
08/25/17 11:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.


Huh?


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: JMJNet] #4497750
08/25/17 11:38 AM
08/25/17 11:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline OP
demarpaint  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.


A 225lb. guy in good shape giving everything he had into a 25" breaker bar w/4' of pipe wasn't budging this thing. He must have driven about 300 yards to get to where he finally parked, I can't comment on how much if any it might have tightened things up, it is a good point though. Another thing that comes into play which I didn't mention is the pipe was a good fit to the breaker bar, not slid down all the way, giving us close to 5' of leverage at times.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497751
08/25/17 11:38 AM
08/25/17 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,001
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,001
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases


Well, then perhaps king Kong was making few extra bucks between movie shoots? LOL

Seriously though, I would advise against these shops to my family and friends. This kind of incompetence is not excusable.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: KrisZ] #4497762
08/25/17 11:58 AM
08/25/17 11:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline OP
demarpaint  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases


Well, then perhaps king Kong was making few extra bucks between movie shoots? LOL

Seriously though, I would advise against these shops to my family and friends. This kind of incompetence is not excusable.


Either Kong or Mighty Joe Young torqued them down! I know both shops well, in all honesty I wouldn't go to either one of these shops to bring waste oil. They might cause a hazardous spill pouring it into their tank. In fact I've steered people away from them. I guess I forgot to tell my nephew in law and my buddy!


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497768
08/25/17 12:06 PM
08/25/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,644
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,644
Central Maryland
It's still going on.

Mr. Tire forced me to get out the 3' breaker bar when I did the post-new-tire check-the-torque check. They also left the air cleaner cover off when they checked my air filter... after I told them not to.

I ripped the service writer a new one and have never been back.

Last month Merchant's Auto snapped off a buddy's wheel lug when rotating his wheels. He bought his tires there and had (note: had) all his maintenance done there. They charged him for a new lug and install labor. He was not happy about that and asked me if it was normal wear and tear. I said yeah, but only if you take your car to the worst tire shop in the county and let them hammer on the air impact. I told him I had 30 year old cars with lug threads that looked like new.

To be fair, maybe 80% of the shops get it right when working on my cars.

Also remember removal torque (static friction) is usually 25% more than installation torque (dynamic friction), add another 5% or more if rusted in place.

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497772
08/25/17 12:10 PM
08/25/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,089
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,089
Upstate NY
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: Donald] #4497777
08/25/17 12:27 PM
08/25/17 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline OP
demarpaint  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Originally Posted By: Donald
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.


It crossed my mind, I have only air tools for that kind of work. My nephew in law took the car to his father's house this morning and tried the other tires with a Milwaukee M18 1/2" drive impact gun and had no luck. He'll be paying the shop that worked on the car the last time a visit and take it up with the owner.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint] #4497782
08/25/17 12:38 PM
08/25/17 12:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Donald
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.


It crossed my mind, I have only air tools for that kind of work. My nephew in law took the car to his father's house this morning and tried the other tires with a Milwaukee M18 1/2" drive impact gun and had no luck. He'll be paying the shop that worked on the car the last time a visit and take it up with the owner.

An angry 200lb guy and 5' of leverage should give about 1500+ ft.lbs I guess the lug nut must've been seized to the wheel to keep the lug from snapping off...
The tire shop I've used seems to take torque specs seriously but then make you sign that you will come back the next day to have them checked... But no one does that I assume.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
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