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#4497720 - 08/25/17 12:11 PM Paying a shop rant........
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29803
Loc: NY
Yesterday was an interesting day. A good friend who lives across the street asked to borrow a couple of sockets to do a brake job. He was a mechanic many years ago and sold off his tools. Now he's starting to dabble a little again. He had tires put on about 6 months ago, and wanted to do a brake job. The moron who installed the tires must of torqued them with a 3/4" impact gun. We had 4 1/2 feet of pipe on a 25" breaker bar to get the lug nuts off. We snapped a good 1/2" drive 3" extension in the process. Then last night about 11:30 my niece calls, her husband had a flat on his way home from work, and was near my house. "He needed a better wrench than the junk that came with the car," was the story. I brought my 1/2" drive impact sockets, 25" breaker bar, my floor jack, and the pipe. We tried the speed wrench first, and snapped the [censored] thing. Out comes the breaker bar and the pipe. He's a 225 lb fireman in good shape. It wouldn't budge. The bow in the breaker bar was a bit unsettling. Before I jumped in with him I asked him if he had roadside assistance. I thought it was worth asking before we jerked around with this thing into the morning. He and my niece completely forgot they had the coverage. WT.... is it with these morons in shops slamming lug nuts home to the point where getting a wheel off is a major chore? Do they really lose money using a little common sense in tightening fasteners? Just another reason why I try my hardest not to go to a shop!

Rant off!
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#4497725 - 08/25/17 12:17 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7475
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.
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#4497733 - 08/25/17 12:25 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 4220
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
My dad ripped a shop a new one when the same thing happened on my sister's 2001 Jetta. She had new tires put on then got a flat tire a week later when she was at school. My dad went to change it (1.5 hours away) and at 6'2 190lbs he couldn't budge the lug nuts standing on a breaker bar.

The shop claimed they put them on with an impact wrench "to ensure they don't come loose for liability reasons". They replaced the tire for free and hand torqued all of the wheels as my dad watched.

One of my friends had a Town Fair Tire snap one of the wheel studs right off on his Ranger. They tried to charge him for a new one claiming "it just broke off". Luckily I haven't had any issues personally with tire shops yet.
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#4497736 - 08/25/17 12:28 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
Wolf359 Online   content


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4773
Loc: MA
I remember taking mine to a Bj's to get the tires balanced. They got one wheel off, but couldn't get the other ones off so they just gave up. Took it to another shop and they couldn't get the lug nuts off either, but then they switched to a bigger impact wrench and were able to get them off, that was probably the 3/4. Don't know who did it last as I bought the car used and it was the first time I had taken the wheels off.

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#4497737 - 08/25/17 12:29 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
dogememe Offline


Registered: 04/15/17
Posts: 613
Loc: SF BAY AREA, CA
The auto parts store I work at does a lot of delivering of 1-2 lug nuts and studs to this one shop. Very few to any other shops we deliver to. I won't name any names but it's a chain shop. I wonder what the story is there - perhaps they put wheels on with impacts and then they break off when repeat customers come in? IDK...


Edited by dogememe (08/25/17 12:29 PM)
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#4497738 - 08/25/17 12:30 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
JMJNet Offline


Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 934
Loc: TX, USA
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.
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#4497744 - 08/25/17 12:32 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: KrisZ]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29803
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases
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#4497746 - 08/25/17 12:32 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: JMJNet]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.


Huh?
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#4497750 - 08/25/17 12:38 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: JMJNet]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29803
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
I am not sure what is going on but if there is a flat tire and the car is continuing to be driven for a few miles, the lug nut on that flat is tightening to the point that you cannot take it out with regular forces.

I usually have to use my body weight to loosen it.


A 225lb. guy in good shape giving everything he had into a 25" breaker bar w/4' of pipe wasn't budging this thing. He must have driven about 300 yards to get to where he finally parked, I can't comment on how much if any it might have tightened things up, it is a good point though. Another thing that comes into play which I didn't mention is the pipe was a good fit to the breaker bar, not slid down all the way, giving us close to 5' of leverage at times.
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#4497751 - 08/25/17 12:38 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7475
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases


Well, then perhaps king Kong was making few extra bucks between movie shoots? LOL

Seriously though, I would advise against these shops to my family and friends. This kind of incompetence is not excusable.
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#4497762 - 08/25/17 12:58 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: KrisZ]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29803
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Corrosion also plays a big role with hard to remove lug nuts in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of being over torqued and corroded.


They weren't corroded, in both cases


Well, then perhaps king Kong was making few extra bucks between movie shoots? LOL

Seriously though, I would advise against these shops to my family and friends. This kind of incompetence is not excusable.


Either Kong or Mighty Joe Young torqued them down! I know both shops well, in all honesty I wouldn't go to either one of these shops to bring waste oil. They might cause a hazardous spill pouring it into their tank. In fact I've steered people away from them. I guess I forgot to tell my nephew in law and my buddy!
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#4497768 - 08/25/17 01:06 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
HangFire Offline


Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 2506
Loc: Central Maryland
It's still going on.

Mr. Tire forced me to get out the 3' breaker bar when I did the post-new-tire check-the-torque check. They also left the air cleaner cover off when they checked my air filter... after I told them not to.

I ripped the service writer a new one and have never been back.

Last month Merchant's Auto snapped off a buddy's wheel lug when rotating his wheels. He bought his tires there and had (note: had) all his maintenance done there. They charged him for a new lug and install labor. He was not happy about that and asked me if it was normal wear and tear. I said yeah, but only if you take your car to the worst tire shop in the county and let them hammer on the air impact. I told him I had 30 year old cars with lug threads that looked like new.

To be fair, maybe 80% of the shops get it right when working on my cars.

Also remember removal torque (static friction) is usually 25% more than installation torque (dynamic friction), add another 5% or more if rusted in place.

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#4497772 - 08/25/17 01:10 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20472
Loc: Upstate NY
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.
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#4497777 - 08/25/17 01:27 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: Donald]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29803
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Donald
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.


It crossed my mind, I have only air tools for that kind of work. My nephew in law took the car to his father's house this morning and tried the other tires with a Milwaukee M18 1/2" drive impact gun and had no luck. He'll be paying the shop that worked on the car the last time a visit and take it up with the owner.
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#4497782 - 08/25/17 01:38 PM Re: Paying a shop rant........ [Re: demarpaint]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9092
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Donald
THUS the need for a high end cordless impact wrench.


It crossed my mind, I have only air tools for that kind of work. My nephew in law took the car to his father's house this morning and tried the other tires with a Milwaukee M18 1/2" drive impact gun and had no luck. He'll be paying the shop that worked on the car the last time a visit and take it up with the owner.

An angry 200lb guy and 5' of leverage should give about 1500+ ft.lbs I guess the lug nut must've been seized to the wheel to keep the lug from snapping off...
The tire shop I've used seems to take torque specs seriously but then make you sign that you will come back the next day to have them checked... But no one does that I assume.
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