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Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline #4497002
08/24/17 12:51 PM
08/24/17 12:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
SLO_Town Offline OP
SLO_Town  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
Hello Folks:

Several months ago my son bought a new 2017 Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon. It's a nice machine.

One thing he's noticed is that the 3.6 liter V6 has some fairly severe valve lifter clatter on startup (I typo'd 3.5 liter in subject line, unable to correct). It's done it since the day he bought it. This clatter only last a few seconds, presumably until oil pressure builds. It doesn't do it with every start. It never clatters with a hot motor that was recently shut off. It clatters with "cold starts", about 80% to 90% of the time. Overnight/outside temperature doesn't seem to matter. Cold starts where he lives can be 60 degree overnight "lows", so nothing extreme. But it will still clatter with a "cold start" 80% to 90% of the time.

This is a well known problem with this engine. See this link. His Rubicon sounds exactly like this one. EXACTLY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMVNZXZJpFY&feature=youtu.be

The engine calls for 5W-20. He changed the factory fill at 1,500 miles with Mobil 1 5W-20 and used an OEM oil filter (a canister type element).

My son I were talking about this one evening and I suggested he try Redline 5W-20. My logic was that the polar nature of Redline's polyolester formulation might do a better job of keeping oil in the lifters (if that's even the problem). Using Redline, he changed the oil at 5K miles and once again used an OEM filter.

This is his daily driver and since putting Redline 5W-20 in two weeks ago the valve clatter has disappeared! The clatter is 100% gone but there still seems to be some kind mechanical noise in the valve train during a "cold start". The remaining mechanical noise it subtle enough that most people wouldn't notice it. The only reason we hear it is because we are listening for it.

Neither of us has any association or ties to Redline Oil, nor do we have an axe to grind against Mobil 1. As I said, this is a well known issue with this motor.

My question to you folks is this - why do you think Redline "fixed" the noise?

Cheers,

Scott and Jim


03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Kendall GT1 Max 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Redline 5W-20)
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497009
08/24/17 12:59 PM
08/24/17 12:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
TheKracken Offline
TheKracken  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
High Moly. Fixes the issue on the Hemi engines as well.


2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497011
08/24/17 01:01 PM
08/24/17 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,080
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,080
Kalifornia Kollective
HTHS smile

Sounds like he got a motor that does not like Mobil1. I always listen for valve noise on cold start. If an oil does that, it gets changed. There are a lot of oils that are quieter than Mobil1 in some motors.

M1 is known as a "noisy" oil for some reason. I just take it to mean that the fluid chemistry and a particular engine topology are not all that happy.

Synthetics in general seem to have a lower surface tension than many dino oils. So they drain off if left to sit. Less standing capillary fill. That does not mean no oil, it just means less cold start film. The lower surface tension is one way they get the wider dual ratings with synthetics.

So say switching from M1 to Pennz conventional will often quite things down. I'm surprised the Redline did this, but it is a stout oil. Excellent product. If your son can afford it, carry on laugh

If it become too expensive for his tastes, maybe a premium dino/syn blend will get same results ...


Last edited by BrocLuno; 08/24/17 01:03 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: TheKracken] #4497033
08/24/17 01:13 PM
08/24/17 01:13 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 341
Michigan, USA
Bighorn2500 Offline
Bighorn2500  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 341
Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
High Moly. Fixes the issue on the Hemi engines as well.


I've heard Schaeffers oil will do the same, must be what's in the add pack.


2012 Ram 2500 SLT 6.7L Cummins 4x4
2015 Jeep Cherokee 3.2L Latitude 4x4
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497126
08/24/17 03:01 PM
08/24/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,683
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,683
Indiana
I have a Jeep with the 4.0 that ticks so I am very tuned to listening to these sort of things. My brother bought a new 2016 JK with the same engine that makes zero noise whatsoever. I am guessing the FF is some sort of SOPUS brew so I would suggest giving PYB, Pennzoil syn, or PP a try. People get nearly 10k out of PYB with these engines and the PYB 5w20 is a blend anyways..

M1 does have a reputation for causing some engines to be a bit noisy. Plus, it does not carry the Chrysler MS-6395 approval. You are certain it behaved this way before dumping the FF and adding the M1? I would personally try other oils before settling on something so $$$.

As for the reason why, some engines are just quieter or louder on certain oils. Any naysayers likely haven't experienced it. Nevertheless, it is great you found something that worked for you.

On a side note, I wish they allowed you to go up in weight for warranty purposes if used for towing, offroading etc.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 153k Synpower 5w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497203
08/24/17 04:58 PM
08/24/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
Camprunner Offline
Camprunner  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,065
MA.
You may want to give Castrol Magnatec a try many people report it seems to quiet noisy motors.

Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497264
08/24/17 06:45 PM
08/24/17 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 289
Georgia
Charlie2015 Offline
Charlie2015  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 289
Georgia
Redline 5w30 makes my Honda so quiet I can't tell if its running when at idle. Their ATF is also amazing.


1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto (Sold) 214k mi
2009 Scion tC Manual (Daily Driver) 165k mi
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497339
08/24/17 08:06 PM
08/24/17 08:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,080
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,080
Kalifornia Kollective
Oh, it's good stuff, just pricey ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4497430
08/24/17 11:54 PM
08/24/17 11:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,727
Texas
FZ1 Offline
FZ1  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,727
Texas
The Redline is a much thicker viscosity than the M1 so it quieted the bad lifter. The redline didn't "fix" anything it's just masking the bad lifter noise. 02.

Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4498071
08/25/17 06:17 PM
08/25/17 06:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
SLO_Town Offline OP
SLO_Town  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
Gentlemen, thanks for all your input. It's good oil nerd stuff. Anyway, for whatever reason(s) the valve clattered has been "eliminated", Redline seems to have "fixed it".

Consider this topic a collective FWIW,

Scott


03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Kendall GT1 Max 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Redline 5W-20)
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: Camprunner] #4498200
08/25/17 08:45 PM
08/25/17 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 371
Washington, USA
Onug Offline
Onug  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 371
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
You may want to give Castrol Magnatec a try many people report it seems to quiet noisy motors.


+1. And it's cheap on Amazon


2016 F-150 3.5L Ecoboost
Current Oil: Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 and Fram Ultra filter
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4499728
08/27/17 06:27 PM
08/27/17 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,683
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,683
Indiana
You could also up the weight to a 5w30.

The owners manual says it's okay to do so.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 153k Synpower 5w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4500104
08/28/17 07:09 AM
08/28/17 07:09 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 497
Connecticut
Sam_Julier Offline
Sam_Julier  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 497
Connecticut
I've experienced the same quietness running Redline 0W30 in the V70.


2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid TGMO 0W20, 62k
1993 Volvo 245 M1 HM 10W30, 152k
1993 Volvo 244 M1 HM 10W30, 159k

Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4503940
08/31/17 10:45 PM
08/31/17 10:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
SLO_Town Offline OP
SLO_Town  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 756
California's Wine Country
Folks:

I just spoke with my son 5 minutes ago. He has not driven his Jeep since Monday morning. He did a cold start late Thursday afternoon. That's 4 days. No valve train clatter. To quote him, he is "convinced" that Redline is somehow suppressing the cold start valve train clatter.

We offer this as nothing more than anecdotal evidence from two honest guys. FWIW.

Scott and Jim


03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Kendall GT1 Max 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Redline 5W-20)
Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town] #4503946
08/31/17 10:58 PM
08/31/17 10:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,521
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,521
...
That's good to hear. Some of the answers here mimic answers on another thread. I'm guessing it's a combination of high dose moly plus HTHS and the viscosity. Redline oils run thick for their grade.

I am somewhat surprised at the issues of Fiat (FCA) with upper end noise on their engines. I wonder if there is any connection?


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
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