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#4497002 - 08/24/17 01:51 PM Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 665
Loc: California's Wine Country
Hello Folks:

Several months ago my son bought a new 2017 Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon. It's a nice machine.

One thing he's noticed is that the 3.6 liter V6 has some fairly severe valve lifter clatter on startup (I typo'd 3.5 liter in subject line, unable to correct). It's done it since the day he bought it. This clatter only last a few seconds, presumably until oil pressure builds. It doesn't do it with every start. It never clatters with a hot motor that was recently shut off. It clatters with "cold starts", about 80% to 90% of the time. Overnight/outside temperature doesn't seem to matter. Cold starts where he lives can be 60 degree overnight "lows", so nothing extreme. But it will still clatter with a "cold start" 80% to 90% of the time.

This is a well known problem with this engine. See this link. His Rubicon sounds exactly like this one. EXACTLY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMVNZXZJpFY&feature=youtu.be

The engine calls for 5W-20. He changed the factory fill at 1,500 miles with Mobil 1 5W-20 and used an OEM oil filter (a canister type element).

My son I were talking about this one evening and I suggested he try Redline 5W-20. My logic was that the polar nature of Redline's polyolester formulation might do a better job of keeping oil in the lifters (if that's even the problem). Using Redline, he changed the oil at 5K miles and once again used an OEM filter.

This is his daily driver and since putting Redline 5W-20 in two weeks ago the valve clatter has disappeared! The clatter is 100% gone but there still seems to be some kind mechanical noise in the valve train during a "cold start". The remaining mechanical noise it subtle enough that most people wouldn't notice it. The only reason we hear it is because we are listening for it.

Neither of us has any association or ties to Redline Oil, nor do we have an axe to grind against Mobil 1. As I said, this is a well known issue with this motor.

My question to you folks is this - why do you think Redline "fixed" the noise?

Cheers,

Scott and Jim
_________________________
03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Castrol Edge EP 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Castrol Edge EP 5W-20)

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#4497009 - 08/24/17 01:59 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
TheKracken Offline


Registered: 04/18/17
Posts: 515
Loc: Fort Worth TX
High Moly. Fixes the issue on the Hemi engines as well.
_________________________
2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles

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#4497011 - 08/24/17 02:01 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5521
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
HTHS smile

Sounds like he got a motor that does not like Mobil1. I always listen for valve noise on cold start. If an oil does that, it gets changed. There are a lot of oils that are quieter than Mobil1 in some motors.

M1 is known as a "noisy" oil for some reason. I just take it to mean that the fluid chemistry and a particular engine topology are not all that happy.

Synthetics in general seem to have a lower surface tension than many dino oils. So they drain off if left to sit. Less standing capillary fill. That does not mean no oil, it just means less cold start film. The lower surface tension is one way they get the wider dual ratings with synthetics.

So say switching from M1 to Pennz conventional will often quite things down. I'm surprised the Redline did this, but it is a stout oil. Excellent product. If your son can afford it, carry on laugh

If it become too expensive for his tastes, maybe a premium dino/syn blend will get same results ...



Edited by BrocLuno (08/24/17 02:03 PM)
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4497033 - 08/24/17 02:13 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: TheKracken]
Bighorn2500 Offline


Registered: 05/24/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
High Moly. Fixes the issue on the Hemi engines as well.


I've heard Schaeffers oil will do the same, must be what's in the add pack.
_________________________
2012 Ram 2500 SLT 6.7L Cummins 4x4
2015 Jeep Cherokee 3.2L Latitude 4x4

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#4497126 - 08/24/17 04:01 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10049
Loc: Indiana
I have a Jeep with the 4.0 that ticks so I am very tuned to listening to these sort of things. My brother bought a new 2016 JK with the same engine that makes zero noise whatsoever. I am guessing the FF is some sort of SOPUS brew so I would suggest giving PYB, Pennzoil syn, or PP a try. People get nearly 10k out of PYB with these engines and the PYB 5w20 is a blend anyways..

M1 does have a reputation for causing some engines to be a bit noisy. Plus, it does not carry the Chrysler MS-6395 approval. You are certain it behaved this way before dumping the FF and adding the M1? I would personally try other oils before settling on something so $$$.

As for the reason why, some engines are just quieter or louder on certain oils. Any naysayers likely haven't experienced it. Nevertheless, it is great you found something that worked for you.

On a side note, I wish they allowed you to go up in weight for warranty purposes if used for towing, offroading etc.
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 199k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 145k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


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#4497203 - 08/24/17 05:58 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
Camprunner Offline


Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1034
Loc: MA.
You may want to give Castrol Magnatec a try many people report it seems to quiet noisy motors.

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#4497264 - 08/24/17 07:45 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
Charlie2015 Offline


Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 241
Loc: Georgia
Redline 5w30 makes my Honda so quiet I can't tell if its running when at idle. Their ATF is also amazing.
_________________________
1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto
2009 Scion TC Manual

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#4497339 - 08/24/17 09:06 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5521
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Oh, it's good stuff, just pricey ...
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4497430 - 08/25/17 12:54 AM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
FZ1 Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 4727
Loc: Texas
The Redline is a much thicker viscosity than the M1 so it quieted the bad lifter. The redline didn't "fix" anything it's just masking the bad lifter noise. 02.

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#4498071 - 08/25/17 07:17 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 665
Loc: California's Wine Country
Gentlemen, thanks for all your input. It's good oil nerd stuff. Anyway, for whatever reason(s) the valve clattered has been "eliminated", Redline seems to have "fixed it".

Consider this topic a collective FWIW,

Scott
_________________________
03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Castrol Edge EP 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Castrol Edge EP 5W-20)

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#4498200 - 08/25/17 09:45 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: Camprunner]
Onug Offline


Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 344
Loc: Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
You may want to give Castrol Magnatec a try many people report it seems to quiet noisy motors.


+1. And it's cheap on Amazon
_________________________
2016 F-150 3.5L Ecoboost
Current Oil: Mobil 1 5W-30 and Fram Ultra filter

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#4499728 - 08/27/17 07:27 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10049
Loc: Indiana
You could also up the weight to a 5w30.

The owners manual says it's okay to do so.
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 199k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 145k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


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#4500104 - 08/28/17 08:09 AM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
Sam_Julier Offline


Registered: 05/22/12
Posts: 432
Loc: Connecticut
I've experienced the same quietness running Redline 0W30 in the V70.
_________________________
2005 Highlander 3.3L PC Duron 0W30, 47k
1993 Volvo 245 Delo 10W30, 140k
1993 Volvo 244 Delo 10W30, 152k


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#4503940 - 08/31/17 11:45 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 665
Loc: California's Wine Country
Folks:

I just spoke with my son 5 minutes ago. He has not driven his Jeep since Monday morning. He did a cold start late Thursday afternoon. That's 4 days. No valve train clatter. To quote him, he is "convinced" that Redline is somehow suppressing the cold start valve train clatter.

We offer this as nothing more than anecdotal evidence from two honest guys. FWIW.

Scott and Jim
_________________________
03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Castrol Edge EP 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Castrol Edge EP 5W-20)

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#4503946 - 08/31/17 11:58 PM Re: Jeep JK 3.5L valve clatter stopped with Redline [Re: SLO_Town]
PimTac Online   content


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4324
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
That's good to hear. Some of the answers here mimic answers on another thread. I'm guessing it's a combination of high dose moly plus HTHS and the viscosity. Redline oils run thick for their grade.

I am somewhat surprised at the issues of Fiat (FCA) with upper end noise on their engines. I wonder if there is any connection?
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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