Recent Topics
Zipcode error
by aquariuscsm
3 minutes 21 seconds ago
NHRA drag racing Racing question??
by daddi
6 minutes 15 seconds ago
Milesyn 5w30 5 gal pails $50.94 w/prime
by Samrsnow
19 minutes 11 seconds ago
Removing Broken Bathtub Drain
by Warstud
24 minutes 6 seconds ago
Buffer Pads
by TheLawnRanger
28 minutes 56 seconds ago
Recommend an oil to me... Pennz, M1, Castrol...?
by chinee
Today at 12:39 PM
Filter for Hydro Gear ZT2800 - Toyota???
by Lancruza
Today at 12:39 PM
Motul 5W30, 3000KM/12 mo, 06 Acura RSX-S 161K KM
by lemaitrix
Today at 12:38 PM
DeWalt dcf887b 3spd impact driver
by JC1
Today at 12:34 PM
Grit guard wash board
by JC1
Today at 12:22 PM
Truck Lug Nut Spikes
by ET16
Today at 12:12 PM
Tier III fuel is on the way
by ZZman
Today at 11:53 AM
ACDelco Dexos 0W20 UOA
by DanMiller
Today at 10:44 AM
Mopar window regulator (some assy. rqd.)
by dlundblad
Today at 10:27 AM
5.3L Silverado Water Pump Torque Specs
by Gito
Today at 10:25 AM
Rhino Ramps at Canadian Tire 50% off
by Snagglefoot
Today at 10:18 AM
What to do when your Glock jams
by bigj_16
Today at 10:13 AM
Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 vs 10w30
by Snagglefoot
Today at 09:09 AM
LM MoS2. Honest, if not appropriately tested?
by wemay
Today at 09:03 AM
Brisket flat on charcoal
by 04SE
Today at 08:45 AM
Newest Members
crrider, EdDmax, 2018matto, Lancruza, IanSampson
65312 Registered Users
Who's Online
91 registered (aquariuscsm, alphadog, AnthemBassMan, 330indy, BAJA_05, andyd, 7 invisible), 1530 Guests and 33 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65312 Members
67 Forums
285914 Topics
4771366 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#4496193 - 08/23/17 03:06 PM Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil???
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
Just to be safe, would one 4 ounce bottle of ZDDP plus in 15 quarts of CK-4 oil raise the Zinc and Phosphorus levels to CJ-4 standards??? I don't know how many PPM one bottle will raise the levels.

Top
#4496227 - 08/23/17 03:59 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Alex_V Offline


Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 1155
Loc: Campbellsville, KY
I'm nowhere near the most knowledgeable party on this, but assuming that one bottle of ZDDPlus is formulated to bring zinc from about 800 PPM to somewhere just under 2,000, wouldn't it raise 15 qts. @ 800 PPM to about 1,200?
_________________________
I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 112K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 167K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K

Top
#4496234 - 08/23/17 04:03 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2973
Loc: USA
Who is spreading this misinformation that CK-4 specifies less zddp?

Top
#4496238 - 08/23/17 04:12 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Reddy45]
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Who is spreading this misinformation that CK-4 specifies less zddp?


So you are saying the CK-4 oils have higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorus than CJ-4?

Top
#4496244 - 08/23/17 04:23 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2973
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Invasivore
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Who is spreading this misinformation that CK-4 specifies less zddp?


So you are saying the CK-4 oils have higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorus than CJ-4?


Not necessarily. The CK-4 spec does not seem to directly specify lower levels of ZDDP based on what I have seen on the information published on the web. I think a lot of the early CK-4 adopters were foolish enough to rate their oils for BOTH SN and CK-4, and the API SN spec DOES limit ZDDP.

Now.. how the oil companies interpret the spec (and if they are shifting from ZDDP to other anti-wear compounds) is another consideration. A VOA of a CK-4 oil that has less ZDDP than the CJ-4 variant does not directly mean that CK-4 caused that lowering of ZDDP.

Top
#4496247 - 08/23/17 04:26 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
Then why would Ford's new spec call for a minimum level of phosphorus that supposedly is not met by CK-4 oils?

Top
#4496361 - 08/23/17 06:52 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2973
Loc: USA
I'm just saying that the specification and the implementation are 2 different things.

It is not correct to directly assume that CK-4 has inferior wear protection qualities when we haven't had enough quantity or time to judge how the producers meet the spec.

Top
#4496365 - 08/23/17 06:56 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
I did a calculation off ZDDP Plus' website. I could be wrong but I think 4 ounces will raise Zinc 600ppm and Phosphorus 480ppm at 15 quarts.

Top
#4496366 - 08/23/17 07:00 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Reddy45]
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I'm just saying that the specification and the implementation are 2 different things.

It is not correct to directly assume that CK-4 has inferior wear protection qualities when we haven't had enough quantity or time to judge how the producers meet the spec.


Yes, I see what you are saying. To achieve the CK-4 spec, some blenders have chose to limit different additives to achieve the result which may or may not be ZDDP.

I think I might try Valvoline premium blue extreme CK-4 since it's on "The List." I will do a VOA, and UOA at 5k, change oil again and try it with Archoil UOA 5k. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke with 170k miles.

Top
#4496394 - 08/23/17 07:32 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24620
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
There is one thing to watch, and that's how the ZDDP species isn't necessarily the same for a PCMO as for an HDEO. So, as always, one has to watch with what one expects from a ZDDP additive. A formulator would be better able to provide us with details on that.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4496924 - 08/24/17 12:15 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Garak]
Invasivore Offline


Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 44
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Garak
There is one thing to watch, and that's how the ZDDP species isn't necessarily the same for a PCMO as for an HDEO. So, as always, one has to watch with what one expects from a ZDDP additive. A formulator would be better able to provide us with details on that.


Yes, I would like to know if adding the bottle of ZDDP will negatively affect film strength, suspension of other additives, and effectiveness of other additives.

Top
#4496972 - 08/24/17 01:20 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Ether Offline


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 82
Loc: Europe
If other additives have been substituted in place of ZDDP for CK-4 oils,could this mean that if you added ZDDP to the package, you may have a situation where the additives are forced to compete with each other,resulting in an unbalanced blend,and/or loss of some positive benefits?

Top
#4497434 - 08/25/17 01:34 AM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24620
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Invasivore
Yes, I would like to know if adding the bottle of ZDDP will negatively affect film strength, suspension of other additives, and effectiveness of other additives.

That's a very good question. To you and to Ether, as best as I recall, ZDDP has more than one function as an additive (or more accurately, additives), including not just anti-wear but as an anti-oxidant.

Just like an HDEO isn't an automatic substitute for a race oil for a gasser, I'd suspect a ZDDP additive designed for performance gasoline engines may not turn a lower phosphorus HDEO into a CI-4+ automatically. I wouldn't go so far as to talk about additive clash, but the intended benefits may just not be there.

Heck, as I recall, at least one car journalist (can't remember if it was print or TV off hand) found out the hard way that a ZDDP additive to an ordinary motor oil can at times be a poor substitute for a dedicated break in lubricant. I don't think we'd find that by running a CK-4 lubricant with a ZDDP additive, but there really isn't any evidence that the additive is needed in the first place.

For those who are worried, I suppose Ford's list is a good place to start. Of course, we are seeing CK-4 only oils, rather than dual rated options, too. I certainly understand everyone's concern. A diesel engine going south isn't like tossing in a cam and set of lifters into a 305 for $200 and an afternoon of work. However, sooner or later, CK-4 will be the only readily available product, and that's probably the case in some places by now.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4503505 - 08/31/17 03:28 PM Re: Adding ZDDP plus to CK-4 oil??? [Re: Invasivore]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 6921
Loc: Michigan
I'm thinking about dosing up my next fill of RT6 in the Dodge with a ZDDP additive to see if it affects the Iron wear rate. I'll have two complete OCI's of CK4 RT6 to compare it to.

Of course, I could go back to my old UOA's and compare Iron wear metals of CK4 RT6 to CJ4 RT6...


Edited by A_Harman (08/31/17 03:29 PM)
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top