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#4495199 - 08/22/17 12:58 PM Shell vs Sunoco
Ursatdx Offline


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 132
Loc: New Jersey
I was hoping someone might chime in and help me compare these two Brands of oil.
Shell Conventional vs Sunoco Ultra Synthetic Blend
Thanks for any help,
TDX


Sunoco Ultra Synthetic Blend

Product Code 5903 5913 5923
SAE J300 Vis Grade 5W-20 5W-30 10W-30
Viscosity, cSt @ 100 C 8.5 10.8 10.8
Viscosity, cSt @ 40 C 47 67 68
Viscosity, CCS, cP @ -30C6,200 (-30) 6,000 (-30) 4,500 (-25)
Viscosity Index 150 160 150
Flash Point, C 200 200 200
Pour Point, C -41 -41 -45
NOACK, wt.% 14.5 14.5 14.5
HT/HS, cP @150C 2.6 3.0 3.0
Density 7.16 7.17 7.25
Specific Gravity, 15.6C .86 .84 .85



Formula Shell Conventional
TEST TYPICAL RESULTS
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-20 5W-30 10W-30
API Gravity 33.01 33.08 30.68
Viscosity, cSt, 40C 47.33 62.87 69.05
Viscosity, cSt, 100C 8.4 10.61 10.42
Flash Point, C 227 225 228
Pour Point, C -48 -38 -43
CCS Viscosity, cP (C) 5,350 (-30C) 5,820 (-30C) 6,100 (-25C)
MRV Viscosity, cP (C) 15,710 (-35C) 22,100 (-35C) 19,500 (-30C)

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#4495221 - 08/22/17 01:25 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Ursatdx]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3972
Loc: New England
I gotta say that those Sunoco oils aren't knocking my socks off based on the test results given...14.5% NOACK loss is right on the edge of the API SN limit and does not meet dexos1 requirements. 200C flashpoint is quite low and it's strange that they're all the same, maybe they're just guaranteeing >200C for the line?

Too bad NOACK is not given for the Shell conventional for a better comparison across the board.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4495227 - 08/22/17 01:31 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Ursatdx]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Man, Id use FS all day over Sunoco.

SUN OIL just start marketing oil again? I don't recall seeing any on market for well over a decade. Bet you a beer they don't package their oil.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter

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#4495294 - 08/22/17 02:40 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: ARCOgraphite]
Ursatdx Offline


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 132
Loc: New Jersey
Thoughts on Mobil Special? I move a lot of oil. Bulk and cased goods. Shell prices have increased dramatically over the last few years. I guess they (SOPUS) prefers to sell Pennz/QS. Do not want to install a sub par engine oil but the price forces me to, at the least, compare products. A bit of research tells me the NOACK% is very important. I saw Formula Shell at 14.3% but the numbers were from 2008.
Thanks again for the replies. It is very helpful for me in my decision making process.

Mobil Special 5W-20 5W-30* 10W-30*
API Service Classification SN SN SN
Gravity, API 33.1 33.0 31.3
Specific Gravity 0.8596 0.8600 0.8692
Pour Point, C (F ) -36(-33) -36(-33) -33(-27)
Flash PointC (F)ASTMD92 224(435) 220(428) 220(428)
Viscosity
cSt at 40C 49.2 60.42 69.4
cSt at 100C 8.6 10.2 10.6
CCS, cP [email protected] C [email protected] C [email protected] C
MRV, cP 26,[email protected] C 29,[email protected] 19,[email protected] C
Viscosity Index 153 157 141
Resource Conserving YES YES YES

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#4495308 - 08/22/17 03:05 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Ursatdx]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3972
Loc: New England
The PQIA looked at the Mobil Special 5W30 a couple of years ago and the NOACK loss was nothing special at 14.4%...I would guess that a lot of conventional SN oils are just under 15%.
http://www.pqiadata.org/MobilSpecial5W30.html
Between the Mobil and Shell oils, I'd probably just pick the cheaper one...I guess Shell might have slightly more impressive results for the specs shown. I noticed that the Mobil 5W30 has a modest dose of moly and no boron while the PQIA shows the Shell 10W30 has healthy doses of both, but they don't have identical grades to compare head to head. The Mobil 5W30 has a strong virgin TBN of 8.6 if stretching OCIs might be a concern.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4495431 - 08/22/17 05:36 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Virtus_Probi]
Ursatdx Offline


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 132
Loc: New Jersey
Thanks VP for the PQIA website.
Great way to compare different brands.
Appreciate all the responses.



Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The PQIA looked at the Mobil Special 5W30 a couple of years ago and the NOACK loss was nothing special at 14.4%...I would guess that a lot of conventional SN oils are just under 15%.
http://www.pqiadata.org/MobilSpecial5W30.html
Between the Mobil and Shell oils, I'd probably just pick the cheaper one...I guess Shell might have slightly more impressive results for the specs shown. I noticed that the Mobil 5W30 has a modest dose of moly and no boron while the PQIA shows the Shell 10W30 has healthy doses of both, but they don't have identical grades to compare head to head. The Mobil 5W30 has a strong virgin TBN of 8.6 if stretching OCIs might be a concern.

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#4495437 - 08/22/17 05:40 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Ursatdx]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3972
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
Thanks VP for the PQIA website.
Great way to compare different brands.
Appreciate all the responses.


You are welcome, glad to be of help!

The Russian Oil Club has a lot of very detailed VOAs with NOACK loss and cold cranking results, too, seems like kind of a weird source but they match up well with other published numbers when a direct comparison is possible. May not be the best place to look for US conventional oils, though.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4495641 - 08/22/17 09:50 PM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Ursatdx]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2330
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
Thoughts on Mobil Special? I move a lot of oil. Bulk and cased goods. Shell prices have increased dramatically over the last few years. I guess they (SOPUS) prefers to sell Pennz/QS. Do not want to install a sub par engine oil but the price forces me to, at the least, compare products. A bit of research tells me the NOACK% is very important. I saw Formula Shell at 14.3% but the numbers were from 2008.
Thanks again for the replies. It is very helpful for me in my decision making process.

Mobil Special 5W-20 5W-30* 10W-30*
API Service Classification SN SN SN
Gravity, API 33.1 33.0 31.3
Specific Gravity 0.8596 0.8600 0.8692
Pour Point, C (F ) -36(-33) -36(-33) -33(-27)
Flash PointC (F)ASTMD92 224(435) 220(428) 220(428)
Viscosity
cSt at 40C 49.2 60.42 69.4
cSt at 100C 8.6 10.2 10.6
CCS, cP [email protected] C [email protected] C [email protected] C
MRV, cP 26,[email protected] C 29,[email protected] 19,[email protected] C
Viscosity Index 153 157 141
Resource Conserving YES YES YES


One thing about Mobil Special is XOM only warratees it for 4K miles or OEM OCI (whichever is longer) not 5K. Dunno if this matters to you for your use.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-special-limited-warranty

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-super-oil-warranty
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

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#4495876 - 08/23/17 07:37 AM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: ARCOgraphite]
Hootbro Offline


Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 2414
Loc: DELAWARE
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Man, Id use FS all day over Sunoco.

SUN OIL just start marketing oil again? I don't recall seeing any on market for well over a decade. Bet you a beer they don't package their oil.


Outside Sunoco branded gas stations, I have never seen their oil on any retailers shelf.
_________________________
2018 Jeep Wrangler JL 3.6L (Idemitsu 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)


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#4495895 - 08/23/17 07:56 AM Re: Shell vs Sunoco [Re: Hootbro]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3972
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Man, Id use FS all day over Sunoco.

SUN OIL just start marketing oil again? I don't recall seeing any on market for well over a decade. Bet you a beer they don't package their oil.


Outside Sunoco branded gas stations, I have never seen their oil on any retailers shelf.


Just noticed that the PQIA looked at their conventional 5W30 about 6 years ago and the 5W20 very recently.
Both have pretty good doses of sodium (like Valvoline and Royal Purple), NOACK losses between 14-15%, very little boron or moly, and modest virgin TBNs around 7. Going to Mobil Special looks to give you a small dose of moly, while Pennzoil looks to have quite healthy doses of moly and boron. Doesn't mean that the latter brands necessarily have better conventional oils, but it seems like a lot of BITOGers are more comfortable with seeing moly and boron compounds...although some of the formulators on here have mentioned that newer organic compounds can do the same jobs well.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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