02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39

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Previous UOA Click here
Oil is Maxlife Syn 5W30 that I added a bunch of Synpower 20W50 to to thicken it.
And of course Lubeguard Biotech additive.
Filter is a Fram XG2 brand new at the start of this run.


Code:


Iron 14

Chromium 0

Nickel 1

Aluminum 84

Copper 6

Lead 0

Tin 0

Silicon 22

Sodium 275

Potassium 3

Titanium 0

Molybdenum 177

Boron 5

Magnesium 9

Calcium 2229

Phosphorous 869

Zinc 790

Fuel
Soot .1 - E2412

Water
Visc 12.0cSt@100C

TBN 3.25

Oxid 16

Nitr 9

Lab is OAI/Polaris

Tell me what you think. I honestly dont have a clue. I did see when I wiped the dipstick before I changed it, grey particulate in the oil. Which I thought was very interesting. What I dont get is everything is wearing so good except for the AL. Super weirdh.
 
I'd run a short interval, maybe 1,000-1,500, change it, then go back to your normal OCI and then retest again to flush out any contamination.

Just curious.. why add all the 20W50? Those engines go many hundred K under cop duty with what's in the owner's manual, plus, the BioTech is just thinning it right back out.

My 2 cents- pick one oil brand, flavor, and viscosity and stick with that. IMHO your mix hasn't done your engine any favors.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
I'd run a short interval, maybe 1,000-1,500, change it, then go back to your normal OCI and then retest again to flush out any contamination.

Just curious.. why add all the 20W50? Those engines go many hundred K under cop duty with what's in the owner's manual, plus, the BioTech is just thinning it right back out.

My 2 cents- pick one oil brand, flavor, and viscosity and stick with that. IMHO your mix hasn't done your engine any favors.


I'm no expert but I don't understand this either. The 4.6 should get 5w-20 or 5w-30 and nothing thicker IMO.
 
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This is a Ford modular with 84PPM aluminum? The highest AL reading I had on my 5.4L was 5PPM on a 17K OCI and that including about 8K of towing in the OCI. The universal average from Blackstone for AL on a 5.5K OCI is 4PPM. How long was your OCI?

Also, I would stop with the witches brew and pick a decent 5W-20 or 5W-30 (MS5K, PYB, etc.), set an OCI of 4K and test to see where I stood. If the AL continues to remain above 30PPM, I would guess you have something about to fail like the timing chain cutting through the cover/cam chain followers or something similar.
 
I hate to be a Debbie downer but I think this engine has serious issues under the timing cover. If it was mine I don't think it would take another Aluminum reading this high for me to be concerned. In my opinion it's time to take action. Likely culprit is timing chain guides or lack there of. Please report back what you find.
 
I'm with FlyNavy-you've reached the point where the timing chains are wearing through the timing cover-might want to fix it before you have to add a cover to the parts list.
 
+3 or +4 or whatever place i am in line...

Cam chain guides are worn through.

STOP driving it and fix it. the whole kit is about $100

http://www.carparts.com/details/Ford/F-150/Replacement/Timing_Chain_Kit/2002/REPL319601.html

spacer.gif
 
At 205K miles, things don't last forever. My last 4.6L dohc went 232K miles before something self-destructed in the engine. It could have been a water pump or a chain guide. It was making a rotational type squeal at the end. Never had the timing chain or valve covers off the car. Your UOA's have given you another chance to try and stem off potential failure. Could that 19K miles on the last oil filter been related to any of this?
 
The only other place Al is present in the mod motors is the bearings, but that's rare to have them go bad.
I suspect your timing set is worn out.
Fix it now! The engine is still viable and can run another 200k+.
And quit using all that other stuff in the oil ... it's not helping in a manner that you want it to.
 
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Bunch of 20w50
smile.gif

How much is bunch?
Why is the visc at 100 only 12 after a bunch of 20w50

Why dont u do a voa on the lubegard
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
What was the interval this time? Looks like Aluminum stayed high.

5000 miles. I usually put it in the topic but was making room for the clickbait title.

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Also, I would stop with the witches brew and pick a decent 5W-20 or 5W-30 (MS5K, PYB, etc.), set an OCI of 4K and test to see where I stood. If the AL continues to remain above 30PPM, I would guess you have something about to fail like the timing chain cutting through the cover/cam chain followers or something similar.


Witches brew I love it.
I put the 20W50 in it to see if it would help with the aluminium (thinking bearings at the time). It isnt so I dont plan on running it anymore.
The biotech cut my oil consumption in half so I dont see any reason to stop using it. Im happy with it.

Originally Posted By: Linctex
+3 or +4 or whatever place i am in line...

Cam chain guides are worn through.

STOP driving it and fix it. the whole kit is about $100

http://www.carparts.com/details/Ford/F-150/Replacement/Timing_Chain_Kit/2002/REPL319601.html

spacer.gif


$100 for a kit of questionable quality plus gaskets plus I have to finagle the passenger side valve cover out of the thing somehow.

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Could that 19K miles on the last oil filter been related to any of this?


Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything.
Heres some pictures.



Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The only other place Al is present in the mod motors is the bearings, but that's rare to have them go bad.
I suspect your timing set is worn out.
Fix it now! The engine is still viable and can run another 200k+.
And quit using all that other stuff in the oil ... it's not helping in a manner that you want it to.


Im stopping the 20w50 because I agree its likely the chain guides and not the bearings. The Biotech keeps my oil consumption reasonable so if I keep this motor I will continue using it.


Im trying to decide at this point if I want to spend the time and money doing an in-frame timing chain job or pull the engine and install my 2004 engine with 90k miles that I have sitting. The advantage of the '04 besides being lower miles is its 8-thread spark plug holes. I know there is at least one plug hole on my current motor thats messed up and will not survive another replacement. Parts wise, its probably a wash. I'd have to get oil pan gasket, pickup tube gasket/seal, valve cover gaskets along with a valve cover from junkyard because one is broken, a intake manifold gasket, and a oil filter adapter gasket.
Labor wise, its probably a wash too.
 
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Bunch of 20w50
smile.gif

How much is bunch?
Why is the visc at 100 only 12 after a bunch of 20w50

Why dont u do a voa on the lubegard
smile.gif


I had a mishap where I spilled a some of my new oil. It was supposed to be a quart of 20W50 ontop of 4 quarts of Maxlife 5W30 but since I spilled, I made up the missing amount with more 20W50.
 
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"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.
 
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.

The other cases of this Ive seen there were little bits of white plastic and chunks of alum in the oil so?? Thats whats wierding me out. Im actually gonna go get a Fram orange and put on the car and cut the ultra open that is on it. It seems like what ever is going on really went off a cliff during the last run.
 
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Originally Posted By: merconvvv
"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.


Would the timing chain debris make it up into the filter, or just sit in the oil pan? Or is the stuff so fine prior to a chunk shearing off, you won't see it any ways?
 
Its an old cop car with 205k on it. You got your money out of it.

Put cheap 10W-30 in it every 5k, drive it until it grenades, then junk it.

Who knows? May go another 50-60K!
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.

The other cases of this Ive seen there were little bits of white plastic and chunks of alum in the oil so?? Thats whats wierding me out. Im actually gonna go get a Fram orange and put on the car and cut the ultra open that is on it. It seems like what ever is going on really went off a cliff during the last run.


What about wierd sounds from timing chain area?
I might have missed this or did the alum show up after the lubegard?
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Its an old cop car with 205k on it. You got your money out of it.

Put cheap 10W-30 in it every 5k, drive it until it grenades, then junk it.

Who knows? May go another 50-60K!



Agreed. Fixing it with another potential life of 200,000 miles (making it 400,000 miles total) is ludicrous.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Its an old cop car with 205k on it. You got your money out of it.

Put cheap 10W-30 in it every 5k, drive it until it grenades, then junk it.

Who knows? May go another 50-60K!

You're right. That sounds like a good plan. Ill run the motor until it kicks it then swap in my replacement. Get my moneys worth out of this engine. That'll give me time to get the other engine out and all the gaskets and parts Ill need for the swap too.


Originally Posted By: merconvvv

What about wierd sounds from timing chain area?
I might have missed this or did the alum show up after the lubegard?

Negative, sounds the same as it always has.
I started the lubeguard awhile ago. Its been highish pretty much the whole time Ive been doing UOAs on it and looked like it was getting better last time but that mustve been a fluke.

Originally Posted By: CKN

Agreed. Fixing it with another potential life of 200,000 miles (making it 400,000 miles total) is ludicrous.


I bought it with 150k from sheriffs office. You have to think they probably idled it a ton. Another 100-150k+ miles worth of additional miles on the engine from idling is totally possible. Which would make this engine in the 300-400k mile range now. So another motor would likely bring it to 600k or so.


I went and looked at the drain pan. Looks like timing chains it is. And yeah it does not appear its making it to the oil filter, however the filter is very clearly stained grey from all the small particulate.
 
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