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02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 #4494581
08/21/17 02:58 PM
08/21/17 02:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline OP
Colt45ws  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Previous UOA Click here
Oil is Maxlife Syn 5W30 that I added a bunch of Synpower 20W50 to to thicken it.
And of course Lubeguard Biotech additive.
Filter is a Fram XG2 brand new at the start of this run.


Code:
Iron		14
Chromium	0
Nickel		1
Aluminum	84
Copper		6
Lead		0
Tin		0
Silicon		22
Sodium		275
Potassium	3
Titanium	0
Molybdenum	177
Boron		5
Magnesium	9
Calcium		2229
Phosphorous	869
Zinc		790
Fuel		<1 - Estimated
Soot		.1 - E2412
Water		<.1 - FTIR
Visc		[email protected]
TBN		3.25
Oxid		16
Nitr		9

Lab is OAI/Polaris

Tell me what you think. I honestly dont have a clue. I did see when I wiped the dipstick before I changed it, grey particulate in the oil. Which I thought was very interesting. What I dont get is everything is wearing so good except for the AL. Super weirdh.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494588
08/21/17 03:13 PM
08/21/17 03:13 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,832
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,832
The land of USA-made Subies!
I'd run a short interval, maybe 1,000-1,500, change it, then go back to your normal OCI and then retest again to flush out any contamination.

Just curious.. why add all the 20W50? Those engines go many hundred K under cop duty with what's in the owner's manual, plus, the BioTech is just thinning it right back out.

My 2 cents- pick one oil brand, flavor, and viscosity and stick with that. IMHO your mix hasn't done your engine any favors.

Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494593
08/21/17 03:17 PM
08/21/17 03:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
What was the interval this time? Looks like Aluminum stayed high.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4494595
08/21/17 03:18 PM
08/21/17 03:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,427
San Rafael, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,427
San Rafael, CA
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
I'd run a short interval, maybe 1,000-1,500, change it, then go back to your normal OCI and then retest again to flush out any contamination.

Just curious.. why add all the 20W50? Those engines go many hundred K under cop duty with what's in the owner's manual, plus, the BioTech is just thinning it right back out.

My 2 cents- pick one oil brand, flavor, and viscosity and stick with that. IMHO your mix hasn't done your engine any favors.


I'm no expert but I don't understand this either. The 4.6 should get 5w-20 or 5w-30 and nothing thicker IMO.

Last edited by dogememe; 08/21/17 03:19 PM.

2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~91K Miles: AMSOIL SS 5W-30, AMSOIL SS FE ATF.
1995 Chevy Silverado 5.7 ~277K Miles: Delo 10W-30, AMSOIL OE MV ATF.
AMSOIL
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494600
08/21/17 03:28 PM
08/21/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
This is a Ford modular with 84PPM aluminum? The highest AL reading I had on my 5.4L was 5PPM on a 17K OCI and that including about 8K of towing in the OCI. The universal average from Blackstone for AL on a 5.5K OCI is 4PPM. How long was your OCI?

Also, I would stop with the witches brew and pick a decent 5W-20 or 5W-30 (MS5K, PYB, etc.), set an OCI of 4K and test to see where I stood. If the AL continues to remain above 30PPM, I would guess you have something about to fail like the timing chain cutting through the cover/cam chain followers or something similar.

Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494607
08/21/17 03:44 PM
08/21/17 03:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,683
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,683
Jacksonville, FL
I hate to be a Debbie downer but I think this engine has serious issues under the timing cover. If it was mine I don't think it would take another Aluminum reading this high for me to be concerned. In my opinion it's time to take action. Likely culprit is timing chain guides or lack there of. Please report back what you find.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494618
08/21/17 03:59 PM
08/21/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,318
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,318
Cincinnati, OH, USA
I'm with FlyNavy-you've reached the point where the timing chains are wearing through the timing cover-might want to fix it before you have to add a cover to the parts list.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494626
08/21/17 04:18 PM
08/21/17 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
+3 or +4 or whatever place i am in line...

Cam chain guides are worn through.

STOP driving it and fix it. the whole kit is about $100

http://www.carparts.com/details/Ford/F-150/Replacement/Timing_Chain_Kit/2002/REPL319601.html



"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494714
08/21/17 06:06 PM
08/21/17 06:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,939
Connecticut
69GTX Online content
69GTX  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,939
Connecticut
At 205K miles, things don't last forever. My last 4.6L dohc went 232K miles before something self-destructed in the engine. It could have been a water pump or a chain guide. It was making a rotational type squeal at the end. Never had the timing chain or valve covers off the car. Your UOA's have given you another chance to try and stem off potential failure. Could that 19K miles on the last oil filter been related to any of this?


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494730
08/21/17 06:32 PM
08/21/17 06:32 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,625
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,625
Indianapolis, IN
The only other place Al is present in the mod motors is the bearings, but that's rare to have them go bad.
I suspect your timing set is worn out.
Fix it now! The engine is still viable and can run another 200k+.
And quit using all that other stuff in the oil ... it's not helping in a manner that you want it to.


Last edited by dnewton3; 08/21/17 06:32 PM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494744
08/21/17 06:44 PM
08/21/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline
merconvvv  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Bunch of 20w50 smile
How much is bunch?
Why is the visc at 100 only 12 after a bunch of 20w50

Why dont u do a voa on the lubegard smile


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: dnewton3] #4494761
08/21/17 07:02 PM
08/21/17 07:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline OP
Colt45ws  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Originally Posted By: Kuato
What was the interval this time? Looks like Aluminum stayed high.

5000 miles. I usually put it in the topic but was making room for the clickbait title.

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Also, I would stop with the witches brew and pick a decent 5W-20 or 5W-30 (MS5K, PYB, etc.), set an OCI of 4K and test to see where I stood. If the AL continues to remain above 30PPM, I would guess you have something about to fail like the timing chain cutting through the cover/cam chain followers or something similar.


Witches brew I love it.
I put the 20W50 in it to see if it would help with the aluminium (thinking bearings at the time). It isnt so I dont plan on running it anymore.
The biotech cut my oil consumption in half so I dont see any reason to stop using it. Im happy with it.

Originally Posted By: Linctex
+3 or +4 or whatever place i am in line...

Cam chain guides are worn through.

STOP driving it and fix it. the whole kit is about $100

http://www.carparts.com/details/Ford/F-150/Replacement/Timing_Chain_Kit/2002/REPL319601.html


$100 for a kit of questionable quality plus gaskets plus I have to finagle the passenger side valve cover out of the thing somehow.

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Could that 19K miles on the last oil filter been related to any of this?


Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything.
Heres some pictures.



Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The only other place Al is present in the mod motors is the bearings, but that's rare to have them go bad.
I suspect your timing set is worn out.
Fix it now! The engine is still viable and can run another 200k+.
And quit using all that other stuff in the oil ... it's not helping in a manner that you want it to.


Im stopping the 20w50 because I agree its likely the chain guides and not the bearings. The Biotech keeps my oil consumption reasonable so if I keep this motor I will continue using it.


Im trying to decide at this point if I want to spend the time and money doing an in-frame timing chain job or pull the engine and install my 2004 engine with 90k miles that I have sitting. The advantage of the '04 besides being lower miles is its 8-thread spark plug holes. I know there is at least one plug hole on my current motor thats messed up and will not survive another replacement. Parts wise, its probably a wash. I'd have to get oil pan gasket, pickup tube gasket/seal, valve cover gaskets along with a valve cover from junkyard because one is broken, a intake manifold gasket, and a oil filter adapter gasket.
Labor wise, its probably a wash too.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: merconvvv] #4494763
08/21/17 07:03 PM
08/21/17 07:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline OP
Colt45ws  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Bunch of 20w50 smile
How much is bunch?
Why is the visc at 100 only 12 after a bunch of 20w50

Why dont u do a voa on the lubegard smile

I had a mishap where I spilled a some of my new oil. It was supposed to be a quart of 20W50 ontop of 4 quarts of Maxlife 5W30 but since I spilled, I made up the missing amount with more 20W50.

Last edited by Colt45ws; 08/21/17 07:04 PM.
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: Colt45ws] #4494769
08/21/17 07:13 PM
08/21/17 07:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline
merconvvv  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: 02 Ford Crown Vic 205k, 84ppm AL, Maxlife 5w39 [Re: merconvvv] #4494779
08/21/17 07:21 PM
08/21/17 07:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline OP
Colt45ws  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,884
Central Washington
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
"""""Doubtful. I cut that filter looking for timing chain guide debris and didnt see anything""""

Thats interesting way to diagnose timing chain debris.
Will have to keep this in mind.

The other cases of this Ive seen there were little bits of white plastic and chunks of alum in the oil so?? Thats whats wierding me out. Im actually gonna go get a Fram orange and put on the car and cut the ultra open that is on it. It seems like what ever is going on really went off a cliff during the last run.

Last edited by Colt45ws; 08/21/17 07:22 PM.
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