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#4494556 - 08/21/17 03:24 PM Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L
sirronin Offline


Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Chicago, IL
Have had this vehicle since 2003, purchased from CarMax with 246 miles (first car after college), so someone else took the hit on the initial depreciation.
Learned early on, post purchase, of 'issues' with this particular platform.
As such, consulted with a Chrysler fleet mechanic friend who advised to keep unit on a strictly synthetic oil regimen.
Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 used from 2003 to 2015.
In addition, also learned that platform was essentially built around the cooling system.
Hence coolant used was always 'Mopar 5 Year Antifreeze', and always diluted 50/50 with distilled water.
Drained and filled coolant every 2 to 3 years, more often as the car aged.

In Sep 2014, all valve cover seals were replaced owing to some very minor seepage I was starting to see.
While I had the top-end apart, I also took the opportunity to replace all the intake manifold seals.
This was done because when I would wash the engine, I would noticed it idling rougher when water was sprayed around the manifold.
This went away with the new seals, and torquing to service manual specifications.
Hence the bump in Silicon in the testing history.
I skipped the last years test as a 'wash-out / control' period to eliminate contaminants from the test results.
Since 2015 switched to Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, mostly to keep seals throughout happy.
Interestingly, some small variances in wear appear at the 2015 vs. 2014 junction.
Wondering if these are indicative of the different oil formulations used, or within statistical tolerances.

Very few issues with this car honestly, it's been the family workhorse (even AC still works very well).
With little kids, there's a certain freedom to having an older car.
I'm fully aware of the 'sketchiness' of the 2.7L, and actively try to stay ahead of it.
Compared to my first car, an 82 Buick Regal that required an engine replacement at ~50k mi, and had an apparent biodegradable cooling system, this car has been a night vs. day improvement.

Now that I'm nearing 80k mi, I realize that I'm nearing the statistical death zone of the water pump.
The car has a little rust, owing to Chicago winters, but nothing earth shattering.
My hope would be to keep it through next year, possibly a little longer (wife allowing), then gift it to some school age family member and trade up to a 18 or 19 Hybrid Acura MDX.

From these results, does anyone see any red-flags with respect to wear:
Code:
MI/HR on Oil		6,199		UNIT / LOCATION AVERAGES	6,304		4,129				
MI/HR on Unit		78,895		 				67,194		60,890				UNIVERSAL AVERAGES
Sample Date		8/7/2017		 			6/1/2015	4/26/2014				 
Make Up Oil Added	1.25 qts		 			1 qt		1 qt				
								
ALUMINUM		8		5				4		3				3
CHROMIUM		1		1				1		1				0
IRON			22		20				23		15				15
COPPER			14		14				14		13				13
LEAD			0		0				0		0				0
TIN			0		0				0		0				1
MOLYBDENUM		92		87				86		83				74
NICKEL			1		1				1		0				0
MANGANESE		3		2				1		1				3
SILVER			0		0				0		0				0
TITANIUM		0		0				0		0				0
POTASSIUM		1		2				4		0				2
BORON			43		37				31		38				54
SILICON			19		48				113		11				11
SODIUM			12		13				26		2				47
CALCIUM			1092		1070				1011		1106				2030
MAGNESIUM		856		784				729		768				145
PHOSPHORUS		904		758				666		704				693
ZINC			1117		925				839		818				807
BARIUM			0		0				0		0				1

Code:
			8/7/2017		Values Should Be*	6/1/2015	4/26/2014
SUS Viscosity @ 210F	63.7			56-63			59.1		56.2
cSt Viscosity @ 100C	11.25			9.1-11.3		9.96		9.11
Flashpoint in F	410			>365			395		435
Fuel %			<0.5			<2.0			<0.5		<0.5
Antifreeze %		0.0			0.0			?		0.0
Water %			0.0			<0.1			0.0		0.0
Insolubles %		0.2			<0.6			0.1		0.3
TBN			2.5			>1.0			3.2	


Most recent Blackstone comments:
Replacing the valve cover seals and intake manifold gaskets would certainly account for the high silicon in the last report. Silicon dropped way down to 19 ppm , so we don't have any concerns about dirt infiltration. Sodium also came down to a normal level so that last reading was just an anomaly and not due to a coolant leak. Wear is in great shape, with metals holding steady. The TBN is still good at 2.5, so try 8,000 miles next. We haven't seen that specific Acura model yet, but if the engine is like the 3.5L Earth Dreams (plus hybrid), it should be a good one.

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#4494574 - 08/21/17 03:45 PM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
sirronin Offline


Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Chicago, IL
For anyone interested, here is the 'mostly' full service history on this vehicle:

August 07, 2017
78895 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed.
Drain and refill cooling system

July 29, 2017
78484 Miles
Brake booster replaced

October 29, 2016
74598 Miles
Brake fluid replaced and bled
Drain and refill cooling system
Wipers Changed

July 30, 2016
72696 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed.
Power steering fluid reservoir drain / fill (x3)

July 15, 2016
72229 Miles
Transmission Shift Solenoid Pack replaced

April 14, 2016
71760 Miles
Coolant reservoir replaced.

March 31, 2016
71402 Miles
Oil Pressure Sensor, Oil Filter replaced
Oil topped off

July 27, 2015
67822 Miles
Cam Position Sensor replaced

July 17, 2015
67692 Miles
Evaporation Control Canister replaced

June 01, 2015
67194 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
UOA run (Blackstone Labs)

August 21, 2014
61257 Miles
Brake fluid replaced and bled

July 25, 2014
61197 Miles
Front driver side front bearing assembly replaced.
Rotated tires.

May 24, 2014
60936 Miles
Differential gear oil changed
Front brake pads and rotors replaced

April 26, 2014
60890 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
UOA run (Blackstone Labs)
Coolant outlet connector replaced.
Coolant reservoir replaced.
Coolant retained, system bled of air bubbles.
Engine degreased

January 22, 2014
58929 Miles
Wipers Changed

January 12, 2014
58600 Miles
Oxygen sensor (Bank 1/Sensor 2) changed - NGK 23133

Nov 02, 2013
57309 Miles
Spark plugs changed (NGK Iridiums)
EGR valve hose replaced with non-molded tubing
Add power steering fluid

Oct 29, 2013
57236 Miles
Flush and refill cooling system
Transmission fluid drained and refilled.

Oct 05, 2013
56761 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
K&N Air Filter washed and re-oiled

Aug 02, 2013
55210 Miles
Rear brake pad and rotors replaced
Driver window motor replaced

Sep 22, 2012
50925 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

Aug 31, 2011
48210 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
K&N Air Filter washed and re-oiled
Replaced 2 front tires with Bridgestone Potenza G019s, best of remaining rotated to rear axle.

July 03, 2011
Warranty replacement of existing Diehard Platinum battery with comparable unit.

June 12, 2010
46915 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

July 11, 2009
45323 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

December 5, 2008
Replaced battery with Diehard Platinum battery

September 13, 2008
43017 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

March 02, 2008
Wipers Changed

October 20, 2007
40706 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed (switched to K&N Gold Oil Filter)
K&N Air Filter washed and re-oiled
Front brake pads and rotors replaced
Rear brake pads replaced

April 21, 2007
38804 Miles
Replaced all 4 tires with Bridgestone Potenza G009s
Front-end alignment

March 10, 2007
38489 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

June 6, 2006
35253 Miles
Air filter replaced with K&N 33-2136

May 29, 2006
34964 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed, Engine Degreased

January 28, 2005
32969 Miles
Flush and refill cooling system

October 1, 2005
30216 Miles
Transmission fluid drained and refilled. Front and rear brake pads replaced. Rotated tires.

August 27, 2005
29957 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed, Bolt Changed, Air Filter Changed,
Wipers Changed

January 29, 2005
24805 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

August 8, 2004
19891 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
Air Filter Changed

March 8, 2004
14910 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed

November 22, 2003
9937 Miles
Oil Changed, Filter Changed
Air Filter Changed

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#4494599 - 08/21/17 04:26 PM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 5062
Loc: USA
I didn't see a water pump replacement anywhere did I?

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#4494606 - 08/21/17 04:43 PM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
FermeLaPorte Offline


Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 503
Loc: Texas (south)
It's pretty low mileage, tho
_________________________
Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.

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#4494843 - 08/21/17 09:37 PM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2634
Loc: MN
That's an SN Mobil1 5w30 HM oil, so I can't figure out why Blackstone claims its got illegally-high levels of phosphorus and zinc.
Honestly, I'm starting not to trust Blackstone's numbers anymore. They messed up some M1 Annual Protection VOA's recently even after re-doing.

That said, IF Blackstone's numbers on Aluminum are correct, thats too far off the universal averages. Bearings are starting to wear more.
Iron up some too. These are not actionable items anyway. Nothing you can do.

No coolant in oil, and silicon (air filter dust) isn't alarming. Always worth checking to see if your airbox is tight.

Another detail: You couldn't have used M1 EP in 2003 and 2004 since it first debuted in 2005. No biggie. You must have used regular M1 or something way, way back then. Who can remember that far back anyway?
"
I bought one of the first Intrepid's in 1992 with the old 3.3L pushrod. Always good handling, those LH platforms. Roomy. 'Cab-forward', Baby!
Back then, Mobil1 changed once a year.

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#4495000 - 08/22/17 08:28 AM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: oil_film_movies]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7642
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


I bought one of the first Intrepid's in 1992 with the old 3.3L pushrod. Always good handling, those LH platforms. Roomy. 'Cab-forward', Baby!
Back then, Mobil1 changed once a year.


The 3.3 was a much better engine than the 2.7, IMO...I still see them running with 200K plus miles.

If that were my Intrepid, I'd try something with more viscosity like 0w40 M1 or Castrol and see if it helps those UOA numbers.
_________________________
'Journalism is Dead'

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#4495025 - 08/22/17 08:58 AM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 12032
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Interesting comment on the "illegally high" phos. I thought I read that in 5w30 and 10w30 flavours of of API SM they had to meet 800 ppm phos limit. Only Non certified and C services can be higher.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter

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#4532390 - 10/02/17 08:20 PM Re: Mobil 1 HM 5W-30, 6199mi, 02 Intrepid 2.7L [Re: sirronin]
sirronin Offline


Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Chicago, IL
As if jinx'ed, the water pump was mentioned and so the weep hole started to rather liberally drip coolant this last Sunday.
Oil in the mechanicals appears to be uncontaminated, with no 'milk-shake' to be seen yet.
Reservoir dropped only about 1in below MAX, but remained well above MIN fill.
Also coolant temp never exceeded 1/4 on the temp gauge, so likely no overheating occurred.
Taking it in for water pump replacement this coming Thursday.
Usually I'd do work like this myself, but reviewing the Factory Service Manual, I'll happily admit that this job is above my pay grade.

1. Conceptually, could someone please explain the sealing mechanism in such a water pump unit?
With flow out of the unit via the weep passage, but no oil infiltration into the crankcase yet, I assume multiple levels of gasketing / sealing.

2. Calling around, most places, including the local Dodge dealer, are mentioning that water pump and guides are all that really need to be replaced.
The overall contention is that the chain is really good to go as-is without replacement (unless obviously stretched).
Dealership went so far as mentioning that these chains should last in the 200k mi range.
Additionally, their shop staff really prefer to leave the original chains in place.

Problem Statement - I WANT TO KEEP THIS CAR 1 OR 2 MORE YEARS, THEN BUY A REPLACEMENT.
What should success look like here mechanically, being that they'll already have the unit extensively disassembled.
What can be skipped, and what is essential?


I'm looking for good enough, not trying to live the fantasy that this car can really be improved.
Also, planning on draining oil and replacing filter after this work completes.

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