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#4494352 - 08/21/17 10:50 AM are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive
alex_at Offline


Registered: 05/31/16
Posts: 118
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Hi,

as we all know almost all motorcycles of today still need periodical valve adjustments. So they aren't hydraulic lifters.

But there comes my lack of experience: Are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam shaft driven or do they rely on roller cams?

For example: The Piaggio 125cc Quasar engine, used in the GTS 125ie - I have googled pictures of their cylinder head - but I can't tell the system they've used, I can see two actuator arms, springs and hidden underneath is the camshaft. What kind of system is that?

Or a Suzuki Boulevard C50, first picture on the right on this site: http://www.bikerbits.com.au/adventures/boulevard_adjust_valves.shtml
what kind of system is that?

More pictures of the C50 cylinder head here, should be the first offer: http://www.bikerbits.com.au/adventures/boulevard_adjust_valves.shtml
-> btw. I'm not sure If I'm allowed to directly link this?

Thanks for the education,

Alex


Edited by alex_at (08/21/17 10:56 AM)

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#4494367 - 08/21/17 11:08 AM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Ive seen finger-follower rockers with jam nut, SUB OHC and Desmo. IIRC the last nice engine I worked on was a gixer DOHC 16V with finger followers.

Had a Yamie 5 valver 700 I4 but never cracked the covers.
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#4494401 - 08/21/17 11:56 AM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4058
Loc: Midwest USA
Moto Guzzi's are still [air cooled] and pushrod but went from flat to roller tappets in model year 2012.
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#4494424 - 08/21/17 12:26 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2969
Loc: USA
The bikes I've owned have been:

Shim over bucket, no roller
Shim under bucket, no roller
Screw and lock nut type (Honda XL600R)

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#4494478 - 08/21/17 01:58 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
Kamele0N Online   sick


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2041
Loc: Slovenia
Let me youtube that for you smile

Piaggio + 125 + valve adjustment ( or clearances)

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#4494530 - 08/21/17 02:55 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 5627
Loc: South Florida
Whats modern? Some motorcycles have been essentially unchanged for 20 or 30 years or longer. They wouldn't meet US emissions standards for a newly introduced motorcycle, but they are grandfathered in.

I have a Suzuki Boulevard S40 that has a single cylinder 652cc engine. Its essentially unchanged, and the 1980's models are identical to the 2017 model sold today. It has a cam in the head that actuates the valves. I dont know the technical term, but its similar to a flat tappet with no rollers.
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#4494654 - 08/21/17 05:42 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5518
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Flat tappet engines almost have to be push-rod engines. There are no overhead cam configurations I can think of that have a flat tappet system ...

Older V-Twins are more likely than any other to have flat tappets ...

Flat tappets can be either hydraulic (as introduced by Buick in '49 IIRC), or they can be solids as run in a gazzilion older Fords and Chrysler products ...

Flat-head motors are almost all flat tappets too. But they usually act directly on the valve stem ...


Edited by BrocLuno (08/21/17 05:45 PM)
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#4494699 - 08/21/17 06:50 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
ddtmoto Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 284
Loc: Utah
...oh, Thought you said modern bikes.... Shim under bucket is the standard. Most modern, oxymoron, cruisers and Gold Wings are hydraulic...
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#4494713 - 08/21/17 07:06 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: BrocLuno]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17776
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Flat tappet engines almost have to be push-rod engines. There are no overhead cam configurations I can think of that have a flat tappet system ...

Any cam lobe directly actuating a flat shim or flat bucket (with shim under) is a "flat tappet" design.

Modern high performance motorcycles still all use that design for good valve train control at high RPM. The design has been around for 40+ years, so it obviously is a design that works well.

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#4494719 - 08/21/17 07:10 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
DdDd Offline


Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 189
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: alex_at
Hi,

as we all know almost all motorcycles of today still need periodical valve adjustments. So they aren't hydraulic lifters.

Alex


Errrrrr... Harleys never need valves adjusted. For all their backwards tech, hydraulic valves natch!

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#4494749 - 08/21/17 07:46 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
WANG Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 545
Loc: North Carolina
Hydraulics and rollers are mainly used in more agricultural mc applications.
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#4494860 - 08/21/17 10:07 PM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
rubberchicken Offline


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Maryland USA
Most bikes are shims over buckets.

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#4494989 - 08/22/17 08:12 AM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: rubberchicken]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1936
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
Originally Posted By: rubberchicken
Most bikes are shims over buckets.


try shim UNDER bucket
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#4494993 - 08/22/17 08:19 AM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: WANG]
Jarlaxle Offline


Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 8163
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: WANG
Hydraulics and rollers are mainly used in more agricultural mc applications.


Honda got 11,000rpm from hydraulic lifters 35 years ago.
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#4495053 - 08/22/17 09:42 AM Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 3055
Loc: n.c.
"Most modern, oxymoron, cruisers and Gold Wings are hydraulic..."

^ I resemble that remark..... crazy

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