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are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive #4494352
08/21/17 10:50 AM
08/21/17 10:50 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 121
Vienna, Austria
alex_at Offline OP
alex_at  Offline OP
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 121
Vienna, Austria
Hi,

as we all know almost all motorcycles of today still need periodical valve adjustments. So they aren't hydraulic lifters.

But there comes my lack of experience: Are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam shaft driven or do they rely on roller cams?

For example: The Piaggio 125cc Quasar engine, used in the GTS 125ie - I have googled pictures of their cylinder head - but I can't tell the system they've used, I can see two actuator arms, springs and hidden underneath is the camshaft. What kind of system is that?

Or a Suzuki Boulevard C50, first picture on the right on this site: http://www.bikerbits.com.au/adventures/boulevard_adjust_valves.shtml
what kind of system is that?

More pictures of the C50 cylinder head here, should be the first offer: http://www.bikerbits.com.au/adventures/boulevard_adjust_valves.shtml
-> btw. I'm not sure If I'm allowed to directly link this?

Thanks for the education,

Alex

Last edited by alex_at; 08/21/17 10:56 AM.
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494367
08/21/17 11:08 AM
08/21/17 11:08 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,194
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,194
N.H, U.S.A.
Ive seen finger-follower rockers with jam nut, SUB OHC and Desmo. IIRC the last nice engine I worked on was a gixer DOHC 16V with finger followers.

Had a Yamie 5 valver 700 I4 but never cracked the covers.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494401
08/21/17 11:56 AM
08/21/17 11:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,210
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,210
Midwest USA
Moto Guzzi's are still [air cooled] and pushrod but went from flat to roller tappets in model year 2012.



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494424
08/21/17 12:26 PM
08/21/17 12:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,170
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,170
USA
The bikes I've owned have been:

Shim over bucket, no roller
Shim under bucket, no roller
Screw and lock nut type (Honda XL600R)

Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494478
08/21/17 01:58 PM
08/21/17 01:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,202
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,202
Slovenia EU
Let me youtube that for you smile

Piaggio + 125 + valve adjustment ( or clearances)



2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494530
08/21/17 02:55 PM
08/21/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
Whats modern? Some motorcycles have been essentially unchanged for 20 or 30 years or longer. They wouldn't meet US emissions standards for a newly introduced motorcycle, but they are grandfathered in.

I have a Suzuki Boulevard S40 that has a single cylinder 652cc engine. Its essentially unchanged, and the 1980's models are identical to the 2017 model sold today. It has a cam in the head that actuates the valves. I dont know the technical term, but its similar to a flat tappet with no rollers.


17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
12 Suzuki S40 Rotella 15W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 PZL Plat 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30


Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494654
08/21/17 05:42 PM
08/21/17 05:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
Flat tappet engines almost have to be push-rod engines. There are no overhead cam configurations I can think of that have a flat tappet system ...

Older V-Twins are more likely than any other to have flat tappets ...

Flat tappets can be either hydraulic (as introduced by Buick in '49 IIRC), or they can be solids as run in a gazzilion older Fords and Chrysler products ...

Flat-head motors are almost all flat tappets too. But they usually act directly on the valve stem ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 08/21/17 05:45 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494699
08/21/17 06:50 PM
08/21/17 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 288
Utah
ddtmoto Offline
ddtmoto  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 288
Utah
...oh, Thought you said modern bikes.... Shim under bucket is the standard. Most modern, oxymoron, cruisers and Gold Wings are hydraulic...


Mustang GT 5.0 Brembo '11
ram 5.9
TL1000S
GSXR1000
DRZ400E
'09 GTZ1400 Concours
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: BrocLuno] #4494713
08/21/17 07:06 PM
08/21/17 07:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,749
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,749
PNW
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Flat tappet engines almost have to be push-rod engines. There are no overhead cam configurations I can think of that have a flat tappet system ...

Any cam lobe directly actuating a flat shim or flat bucket (with shim under) is a "flat tappet" design.

Modern high performance motorcycles still all use that design for good valve train control at high RPM. The design has been around for 40+ years, so it obviously is a design that works well.

Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494719
08/21/17 07:10 PM
08/21/17 07:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 209
NY
DdDd Offline
DdDd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 209
NY
Originally Posted By: alex_at
Hi,

as we all know almost all motorcycles of today still need periodical valve adjustments. So they aren't hydraulic lifters.

Alex


Errrrrr... Harleys never need valves adjusted. For all their backwards tech, hydraulic valves natch!

Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494749
08/21/17 07:46 PM
08/21/17 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
WANG Offline
WANG  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
Hydraulics and rollers are mainly used in more agricultural mc applications.


"Sportbikes have evolved from an axe into a scalpel.
Problem is, the average sportbike buyer is more lumberjack than surgeon." -Richard Pollock
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4494860
08/21/17 10:07 PM
08/21/17 10:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 463
Maryland USA
rubberchicken Offline
rubberchicken  Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 463
Maryland USA
Most bikes are shims over buckets.

Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: rubberchicken] #4494989
08/22/17 08:12 AM
08/22/17 08:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,948
Cedar Park, TX
sunruh Offline
sunruh  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,948
Cedar Park, TX
Originally Posted By: rubberchicken
Most bikes are shims over buckets.


try shim UNDER bucket


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: WANG] #4494993
08/22/17 08:19 AM
08/22/17 08:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,408
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,408
New England
Originally Posted By: WANG
Hydraulics and rollers are mainly used in more agricultural mc applications.


Honda got 11,000rpm from hydraulic lifters 35 years ago.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, Super Tech 15W40, Purolator
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 NextGen, Motorcraft
Re: are modern motorcycles still flat tappet cam drive [Re: alex_at] #4495053
08/22/17 09:42 AM
08/22/17 09:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,159
n.c.
gman2304 Offline
gman2304  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,159
n.c.
"Most modern, oxymoron, cruisers and Gold Wings are hydraulic..."

^ I resemble that remark..... crazy

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