Gripe over Gun Store Practices.

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My 20 yo son is in that AR stage where he is building his AR switching out barrels, making mods and all that and now he has alot of spare parts. He bought a 80% lower and made a mess in my shop cutting it out before he gave up on a mess, he had to clean up. He paid $20 for it.
He said he has enough spare parts at this point to build me a rifle for about a $100. I said let's build one but I am not really into the AR craze. I am more a classic vintage rifle guy so I don't know much about what we need. So we go to a gun store where he saw Anderson Lowers for $59. He can't buy a lower because he is 20 and technically because you could build one of those idiotic sawed off abortion AR pistols they are sold as a handgun and have to be 21.
He bought all his ARs because he only had to be 18.
So we pick out the lower and the gun shop said they can't sell "ME" the lower because he looked at it first and it's considered a straw purchase now and I could go to jail and they could be fined and the manager came over and explained they couldn't sell me the part because he showed interest in the gun etc... So I said fine no big deal. Not asking you to do something your not comfortable with etc.. so we continue looking around the store at magazines, ammo and stuff and this older gentleman comes in and he is looking at pistols and he goes on to say he wants to get something for his wife to carry in the car, light but not to little with not much recoil. So they are showing him .380s and .38 specials and after a while he decides to go with a .38 Special lightweight Smith Wesson for $519. So he says he will buy it and he has his concealed weapon permit so he can waive the three days and they get him the forms and he starts filling them out so I saunter over and ask the manager isn't that a straw purchase? And he got all white and he is well no because he is alone and it only for his wife to carry not own and I said but he clearly said it's for his wife, what's his wife's age? Do you know his wife isnt a felon and she can even carry a gun. Shouldn't his wife being buying the gun and the guy buying the gun looks all bewidered. I said I am going to check with the ATF about this sounds like you are selling straw purchases but only if it's over $500.
I have no intention of contacting the ATF but what a bunch of jack donkey's.
I hope I ruined his afternoon anyway.
 
Sounds like this store got burned...

Did he know it was your son and did either of you mention money changing hands between you?

A familiarity with page 4 of the form would come in handy here.
 
What a Charlie Foxtrot. In California you can't waive the 10 day "cooling off" period. Because it made a ton of sense I had to wait 10 days to get my new Glock while I got to hang out with all my other guns.

The store I go to is actually really strict about following all the rules to the letter of the law. It costs them some sales but it is better than the alternative.
 
80% lowers are fairly easy with the right jig. I used one from 80% Arms that only needs a drill and router. It worked the first time. I've done more with it since then. They all work perfectly.
 
I thought the straw purchase was not applied to close family. I should be able to buy my kids, wife, or mother etc (and have), a firearm without issue. Its outside of the immediate family theres a issue. My firearms manual is buried somewhere from when I sold few but had to hold ffl to repair or hold any arm overnight.
 
We told them he was my son and I told them he is building the gun for me so it will belong to me. It's just funny that they are all by the book for a $60 purchase but willing to overlook the rules for a $520 purchase. I have a concealed weapons permit so I could bypass the 3 day period.
It's just stupid that he can buy a AR rifle but not a lower at 18 when you could take the lower from the rifle and modify it the same. It's the same parts.
 
I am not an AR fan myself.

Some States allow exceptions if it is purchased as a gift for certain family members. I believe in the example you provide, the husband would be the actual buyer of the firearm he intends to give as a gif to his wife.

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.

Personally, I see no good advantage to yourself or your son by making the scene that you did in that gunshop.

Calm heads and firearms are compatible...hot heads and firearms are not.
 
You learned a lesson. BEFORE you step into a shop, you need to know what you want to buy. The way you did it, with your son picking out the item, and you filling out the paperwork and paying for it, gave them some concern, which is understandable. They will shut down ANY sales that they dont feel good about. They would rather lose a sale, then lose their license and thousands of sales.

The guy buying a gun as a gift for his wife was well within his right to do so. You making a scene over it was just a childish temper tantrum, IMHO.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.


True, but he says the other buyer clearly bought a pistol for his wife and she wasn't present. She could be a felon, illegal alien, mentally unstable, liberal...
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.


True, but he says the other buyer clearly bought a pistol for his wife and she wasn't present. She could be a felon, illegal alien, mentally unstable, liberal...


That doesn't matter. It is legal to purchase a firearm to give as a gift, unless some states regulate that. Whether the person you gift it to is legal to own it is on you, not the FFL. Here in GA you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, but can be gifted one at 18. There are very few circumstances where you can carry a handgun under 21 though. One exception is while fishing with a valid fishing license.

I thought that you could buy a stripped lower as a rifle. I thought it just depended on what was selected on the form.
 
What's a waiting period? I guess I'm spoiled living in the South. Most states here, the "waiting period" is about 5 minutes, 10 if the servers are busy.
 
I disagree. I was the purchaser. I was paying and I was filling out the form.
No money was exchanging hands between me and my son.
It would be no different than if a gun guru went in with a newbie and the gun guy said this is what you want.
I may ask my wife to go down on Monday and say I am buying the lower for my husband and see if they reject her.
 
You were legal, but the shop can choose to refuse service. I would shop somewhere else.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.


True, but he says the other buyer clearly bought a pistol for his wife and she wasn't present. She could be a felon, illegal alien, mentally unstable, liberal...


I am merely stating how the laws are written and interpreted.

Your concern about such circumstances would need to be taken up with lawmakers.

There are no doubt plenty who would like to take away the right to "gift" a firearm to an immediate family member.
 
The ATF states that the dealer is the last link in the actual sale of a firearm. And if the dealer is not comfortable for any reason with the sale, they can terminate it for any reason.
 
I know no one reads the form (it is available online btw, so you can now) but it fairly clearly outlines the circumstances where you are (and are not) the actual purchaser. Reading and familiarizing yourself with the form would not only have helped you explain why it wasn’t a straw purchase, but would have kept you from pitching a fit about something that was not a straw purchase. They will be telling stories about you for a while probably.
 
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