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Gripe over Gun Store Practices. #4493159
08/19/17 07:37 PM
08/19/17 07:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline OP
Panzerman  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
My 20 yo son is in that AR stage where he is building his AR switching out barrels, making mods and all that and now he has alot of spare parts. He bought a 80% lower and made a mess in my shop cutting it out before he gave up on a mess, he had to clean up. He paid $20 for it.
He said he has enough spare parts at this point to build me a rifle for about a $100. I said let's build one but I am not really into the AR craze. I am more a classic vintage rifle guy so I don't know much about what we need. So we go to a gun store where he saw Anderson Lowers for $59. He can't buy a lower because he is 20 and technically because you could build one of those idiotic sawed off abortion AR pistols they are sold as a handgun and have to be 21.
He bought all his ARs because he only had to be 18.
So we pick out the lower and the gun shop said they can't sell "ME" the lower because he looked at it first and it's considered a straw purchase now and I could go to jail and they could be fined and the manager came over and explained they couldn't sell me the part because he showed interest in the gun etc... So I said fine no big deal. Not asking you to do something your not comfortable with etc.. so we continue looking around the store at magazines, ammo and stuff and this older gentleman comes in and he is looking at pistols and he goes on to say he wants to get something for his wife to carry in the car, light but not to little with not much recoil. So they are showing him .380s and .38 specials and after a while he decides to go with a .38 Special lightweight Smith Wesson for $519. So he says he will buy it and he has his concealed weapon permit so he can waive the three days and they get him the forms and he starts filling them out so I saunter over and ask the manager isn't that a straw purchase? And he got all white and he is well no because he is alone and it only for his wife to carry not own and I said but he clearly said it's for his wife, what's his wife's age? Do you know his wife isnt a felon and she can even carry a gun. Shouldn't his wife being buying the gun and the guy buying the gun looks all bewidered. I said I am going to check with the ATF about this sounds like you are selling straw purchases but only if it's over $500.
I have no intention of contacting the ATF but what a bunch of jack donkey's.
I hope I ruined his afternoon anyway.



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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493164
08/19/17 07:42 PM
08/19/17 07:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,024
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,024
Atlanta,GA
Not surprised.


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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493181
08/19/17 08:07 PM
08/19/17 08:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,268
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,268
NJ
How can he buy a pistol but not a lower?


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493185
08/19/17 08:09 PM
08/19/17 08:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
Very well said....
A bunch of stupidity.

Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493206
08/19/17 08:23 PM
08/19/17 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,404
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline
DuckRyder  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,404
Atlanta
Sounds like this store got burned...

Did he know it was your son and did either of you mention money changing hands between you?

A familiarity with page 4 of the form would come in handy here.


Robert
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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493207
08/19/17 08:23 PM
08/19/17 08:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,330
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,330
Santa Barbara, CA
What a Charlie Foxtrot. In California you can't waive the 10 day "cooling off" period. Because it made a ton of sense I had to wait 10 days to get my new Glock while I got to hang out with all my other guns.

The store I go to is actually really strict about following all the rules to the letter of the law. It costs them some sales but it is better than the alternative.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493221
08/19/17 08:52 PM
08/19/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Crispysea Offline
Crispysea  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
80% lowers are fairly easy with the right jig. I used one from 80% Arms that only needs a drill and router. It worked the first time. I've done more with it since then. They all work perfectly.

Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493224
08/19/17 08:55 PM
08/19/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
bioburner Offline
bioburner  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
I thought the straw purchase was not applied to close family. I should be able to buy my kids, wife, or mother etc (and have), a firearm without issue. Its outside of the immediate family theres a issue. My firearms manual is buried somewhere from when I sold few but had to hold ffl to repair or hold any arm overnight.



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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493266
08/19/17 10:04 PM
08/19/17 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline OP
Panzerman  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
We told them he was my son and I told them he is building the gun for me so it will belong to me. It's just funny that they are all by the book for a $60 purchase but willing to overlook the rules for a $520 purchase. I have a concealed weapons permit so I could bypass the 3 day period.
It's just stupid that he can buy a AR rifle but not a lower at 18 when you could take the lower from the rifle and modify it the same. It's the same parts.



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2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493268
08/19/17 10:09 PM
08/19/17 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
I am not an AR fan myself.

Some States allow exceptions if it is purchased as a gift for certain family members. I believe in the example you provide, the husband would be the actual buyer of the firearm he intends to give as a gif to his wife.

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.

Personally, I see no good advantage to yourself or your son by making the scene that you did in that gunshop.

Calm heads and firearms are compatible...hot heads and firearms are not.


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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493273
08/19/17 10:30 PM
08/19/17 10:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
You learned a lesson. BEFORE you step into a shop, you need to know what you want to buy. The way you did it, with your son picking out the item, and you filling out the paperwork and paying for it, gave them some concern, which is understandable. They will shut down ANY sales that they dont feel good about. They would rather lose a sale, then lose their license and thousands of sales.

The guy buying a gun as a gift for his wife was well within his right to do so. You making a scene over it was just a childish temper tantrum, IMHO.


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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: ArcticDriver] #4493274
08/19/17 10:33 PM
08/19/17 10:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,943
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,943
PV Az
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.


True, but he says the other buyer clearly bought a pistol for his wife and she wasn't present. She could be a felon, illegal alien, mentally unstable, liberal...


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Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: AZjeff] #4493292
08/19/17 11:26 PM
08/19/17 11:26 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

On the other hand, you were...by appearance...intending to purchase the firearm " on behalf" of your son for the very reason that he was not eligible to purchase it himself. By definition...a straw purchase. The dealer used discretion based on what he saw and he is the one who risks his FFL.


True, but he says the other buyer clearly bought a pistol for his wife and she wasn't present. She could be a felon, illegal alien, mentally unstable, liberal...


That doesn't matter. It is legal to purchase a firearm to give as a gift, unless some states regulate that. Whether the person you gift it to is legal to own it is on you, not the FFL. Here in GA you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, but can be gifted one at 18. There are very few circumstances where you can carry a handgun under 21 though. One exception is while fishing with a valid fishing license.

I thought that you could buy a stripped lower as a rifle. I thought it just depended on what was selected on the form.

Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493299
08/19/17 11:37 PM
08/19/17 11:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
Crispysea Offline
Crispysea  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
TN USA
What's a waiting period? I guess I'm spoiled living in the South. Most states here, the "waiting period" is about 5 minutes, 10 if the servers are busy.

Re: Gripe over Gun Store Practices. [Re: Panzerman] #4493303
08/19/17 11:46 PM
08/19/17 11:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline OP
Panzerman  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
I disagree. I was the purchaser. I was paying and I was filling out the form.
No money was exchanging hands between me and my son.
It would be no different than if a gun guru went in with a newbie and the gun guy said this is what you want.
I may ask my wife to go down on Monday and say I am buying the lower for my husband and see if they reject her.



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