95 F355 oil and coolant analysis

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Hey guys,

Just signed up and curious would you think of these results.

I'm in the process of inspecting to buy a 95 Ferrari F355. The car has little maintenance history so I thought it prudent to send off some fluids to get an idea if there were any critical issues that perhaps wouldn't be picked up by eye or through compression/leakdown.

Unless the community has something to say about the oil, I think it looks reasonable. In terms of the coolant, lead (Pb) content is really high. The seller has indicated that there was a small radiator leak, which he had used some Holts Conditioner to treat. However, I think that the Pb corrosion is what's at issue and require new coolant system (rads, heater core, other exchangers).

What do you guys think?

https://media.trillian.im/media/?m=aW1hZ2UvcG5nLDE0NTUsNTU5LAjbzOZcMTAto%2FNqGOjDQ7uw4NxUh9emqlsazT%2FymaRb

edit: I can't seem to make the image link work.
 
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You sound like you want additional challenge or drama in your life!

I can't comment on the Holt's conditioner. Good luck though.

IDK who'd put stop leak in a Ferarri. Lowball this deal.
 
Run. Run far away. If someone was actually cheap enough to use stop leak in a ferrari god knows what elder they cheaped out on. Keep in mind timing belts are due every 15k in this car, usually in the 5000-7500 range depending on what needs to be done. The exhaust manifolds crack, O2 sensors fail constantly, and if its an SMG trans the clutches are easily 7k. Even in manual trans its still a 5000 job. These cars are maintenance pigs, and if they've been neglected be prepared to start paying right away. Theres a yellow one at a dealer by me that my friend works at, its going for $25k because it needs 30k in repairs and maintenance. Get ready.
I see in the analysis you're at 45k, so its due for a belt no matter what.
 
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Google Tom Yang Ferrari blog. He is hob nobbing at Pebble Beach presently. His specialty is older Ferraris. He is gainfully employed. Much of his trade is the result of shoddy maintenance. Not a Ferrari fan myself, but he fixes stuff that often is NLA and that interests me.
 
Thanks for the responses.

The car overall appears in good mechanical and overall condition for it's age and mileage. It will undergo a thorough inspection by the most well known Ferrari mechanic in the state. Apparently, the RadWeld/Coolant Conditioner is a stopgap that many Ferrari techs suggest to solve small coolant leaks - though not a permanent solution of course. Did you know that Subaru recommends that stuff at every coolant change?!?

I'm quite familiar with the maintenance requirements of these sorts of Ferraris and their associated costs. It has all of the known 'bugs' already worked out (steel guides, aftermarket headers, cats gone, interior refinishings, etc.) and has had a comprehensive major service done just over a year ago (belts, bearings, seals, water pump, etc.) The oil analysis shows good results and doesn't suggest any issues with wear or oil/water/fuel mixing. The PPI will include compression and leak down testing to be certain.

What I don't have an understanding of is what high concentrations of elemental lead would lead to long term. I *think* it's due to weldment corrosion, as suggested in the analysis, but what effects this may have is unknown to me. As I said it'll likely need a coolant system overhaul. Does anyone have any feedback on this directly?

Thanks again!
 
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The oil sample seems suspect to me given no lead yet 17Fe and 4Al in an aluminum engine.

Coolant looks like lead solder is getting attacked, but would need to be compared against reputable standards.
 
Could you elaborate on the iron and aluminum content concerns?
 
Iron is too high, I would have capped this at 10. Don't bother with the aluminum as much as your concern should be the wrist pins here which are going to show up as Nickel. How is this car driven? Because the UOA tells me it's driven very softly and it's likely not fully seated. On these race engines, you need to really be on them often to prevent this kinds of issues from arising.

You need more detailed UOA to really get the picture, seeing strictly ICP data (wear metals) is very limited, there's many more things to UOA than just wear metals.
 
Originally Posted By: f355
Thanks for the responses.

The car overall appears in good mechanical and overall condition for it's age and mileage. It will undergo a thorough inspection by the most well known Ferrari mechanic in the state. Apparently, the RadWeld/Coolant Conditioner is a stopgap that many Ferrari techs suggest to solve small coolant leaks - though not a permanent solution of course. Did you know that Subaru recommends that stuff at every coolant change?!?

I'm quite familiar with the maintenance requirements of these sorts of Ferraris and their associated costs. It has all of the known 'bugs' already worked out (steel guides, aftermarket headers, cats gone, interior refinishings, etc.) and has had a comprehensive major service done just over a year ago (belts, bearings, seals, water pump, etc.) The oil analysis shows good results and doesn't suggest any issues with wear or oil/water/fuel mixing. The PPI will include compression and leak down testing to be certain.

What I don't have an understanding of is what high concentrations of elemental lead would lead to long term. I *think* it's due to weldment corrosion, as suggested in the analysis, but what effects this may have is unknown to me. As I said it'll likely need a coolant system overhaul. Does anyone have any feedback on this directly?

Thanks again!


I enjoy seeing someone go after something that they really want. My vehicle choice wasn't nearly as exotic, but I bought a four year old M6 back in 1992. My only regret was that I sold it.
 
Thanks. It was formerly owned by the President of the New York Times for all of the last 18 months. I think it commuted from NJ to NYC if I'm honest and probably spent some time sitting after that; no, it probably wasn't driven hard. I do know the latest owner has tracked it and wouldn't have been as easy on her as he's an experienced racing driver.

Unfortunately, there can't be another sample analysed, besides what's already been done, as the oil plug was dropped and the entire oil tank's contents ended up on the seller's shop floor! I could call Titan and speak with the tech Monday if there is anything else they would have measured besides what's on the sheet. What else should I be looking for?
 
Originally Posted By: f355
Thanks. It was formerly owned by the President of the New York Times for all of the last 18 months. I think it commuted from NJ to NYC if I'm honest and probably spent some time sitting after that; no, it probably wasn't driven hard. I do know the latest owner has tracked it and wouldn't have been as easy on her as he's an experienced racing driver.

Unfortunately, there can't be another sample analysed, besides what's already been done, as the oil plug was dropped and the entire oil tank's contents ended up on the seller's shop floor! I could call Titan and speak with the tech Monday if there is anything else they would have measured besides what's on the sheet. What else should I be looking for?


Well they gave you a partial FTIR work up. You should have received soot and AW with that reading.

You're going to want Karl Fischer, Gas Chromatography, viscosity at 40c and the index. TAN and TBN. What did this test cost?

On such a beautiful car, I'd recommend a higher quality oil. Congrats.
 
As Audios said pass on this car. That model is very high maintenance and complicated. Check out the Ferrari 360 as its a much more reliable and robust car. Belts are easy to replace on this model.

Never buy a neglected or abused Ferrari.

I bought a 2 year old Ferrari 308GTSi, owned it for 8 years and sold it for more then I paid for it.

All maintenance was done myself except for belt change $550.

I replace these myself: Water pump $170, clutch $800. Went through lots of tires!
Mine was very dependable.


A Ferrari is a joy to drive and own. I really miss mine.
 
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Originally Posted By: danielLD
Well they gave you a partial FTIR work up. You should have received soot and AW with that reading.

You're going to want Karl Fischer, Gas Chromatography, viscosity at 40c and the index. TAN and TBN. What did this test cost?

On such a beautiful car, I'd recommend a higher quality oil. Congrats.


I'll ask about those tests. Cost $28 for the oil and coolant.

Pennzoil 5w-40 Platinum Euro, plus the top up of Mobil 1 (for a reason I can't recall ATM), is what's been in it. It's also what's recommended by Ferrari. What oil would you suggest that is better? I'm new to this topic. I've browsed the site but the info overload has made it difficult to narrow in on what I'm supposed to learn off the bat. Suggestion for a good 'starter' thread, perhaps?

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: f355
Could you elaborate on the iron and aluminum content concerns?


Its an aluminum engine. CI liners in the cylinders? Al-Si hypereutectic pistons?

Where is the iron coming from if its not showing a shedding from the pistons, or showing bearing wear that would look like Pb, Sn, etc?

It just looks to me like the ratios and what is observed are a little bit funny, but I may be wrong...
 
So it's your concern is that the test itself may be questionable? I see.
 
Originally Posted By: f355
So it's your concern is that the test itself may be questionable? I see.


No. I'm curious as to the basis of the ratios.

Why is it seemingly shedding high iron in an engine without much in it, yet not showing lead or aluminum? Could it be a cam issue? Too many cold starts after sitting a long time? I dunno...
 
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