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#4492583 - 08/19/17 08:03 AM 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis
f355 Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 8
Loc: NC
Hey guys,

Just signed up and curious would you think of these results.

I'm in the process of inspecting to buy a 95 Ferrari F355. The car has little maintenance history so I thought it prudent to send off some fluids to get an idea if there were any critical issues that perhaps wouldn't be picked up by eye or through compression/leakdown.

Unless the community has something to say about the oil, I think it looks reasonable. In terms of the coolant, lead (Pb) content is really high. The seller has indicated that there was a small radiator leak, which he had used some Holts Conditioner to treat. However, I think that the Pb corrosion is what's at issue and require new coolant system (rads, heater core, other exchangers).

What do you guys think?

https://media.trillian.im/media/?m=aW1hZ2UvcG5nLDE0NTUsNTU5LAjbzOZcMTAto%2FNqGOjDQ7uw4NxUh9emqlsazT%2FymaRb

edit: I can't seem to make the image link work.


Edited by f355 (08/19/17 08:05 AM)

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#4492630 - 08/19/17 08:50 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32629
Loc: ME
You sound like you want additional challenge or drama in your life!

I can't comment on the Holt's conditioner. Good luck though.

IDK who'd put stop leak in a Ferarri. Lowball this deal.

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#4492635 - 08/19/17 08:54 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
Audios Offline


Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 879
Loc: Lyndhurst NJ
Run. Run far away. If someone was actually cheap enough to use stop leak in a ferrari god knows what elder they cheaped out on. Keep in mind timing belts are due every 15k in this car, usually in the 5000-7500 range depending on what needs to be done. The exhaust manifolds crack, O2 sensors fail constantly, and if its an SMG trans the clutches are easily 7k. Even in manual trans its still a 5000 job. These cars are maintenance pigs, and if they've been neglected be prepared to start paying right away. Theres a yellow one at a dealer by me that my friend works at, its going for $25k because it needs 30k in repairs and maintenance. Get ready.
I see in the analysis you're at 45k, so its due for a belt no matter what.


Edited by Audios (08/19/17 08:55 AM)
_________________________
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2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL

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#4492640 - 08/19/17 09:06 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 4838
Loc: Houston, Texas
Yeah Ferraris are junk. Or at least were never designed to be a daily driver.
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#4492641 - 08/19/17 09:07 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 4838
Loc: Houston, Texas
Buy a Porsche.
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#4492706 - 08/19/17 10:17 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7125
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Google Tom Yang Ferrari blog. He is hob nobbing at Pebble Beach presently. His specialty is older Ferraris. He is gainfully employed. Much of his trade is the result of shoddy maintenance. Not a Ferrari fan myself, but he fixes stuff that often is NLA and that interests me.
_________________________
'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2

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#4492709 - 08/19/17 10:26 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
f355 Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 8
Loc: NC
Thanks for the responses.

The car overall appears in good mechanical and overall condition for it's age and mileage. It will undergo a thorough inspection by the most well known Ferrari mechanic in the state. Apparently, the RadWeld/Coolant Conditioner is a stopgap that many Ferrari techs suggest to solve small coolant leaks - though not a permanent solution of course. Did you know that Subaru recommends that stuff at every coolant change?!?

I'm quite familiar with the maintenance requirements of these sorts of Ferraris and their associated costs. It has all of the known 'bugs' already worked out (steel guides, aftermarket headers, cats gone, interior refinishings, etc.) and has had a comprehensive major service done just over a year ago (belts, bearings, seals, water pump, etc.) The oil analysis shows good results and doesn't suggest any issues with wear or oil/water/fuel mixing. The PPI will include compression and leak down testing to be certain.

What I don't have an understanding of is what high concentrations of elemental lead would lead to long term. I *think* it's due to weldment corrosion, as suggested in the analysis, but what effects this may have is unknown to me. As I said it'll likely need a coolant system overhaul. Does anyone have any feedback on this directly?

Thanks again!


Edited by f355 (08/19/17 10:31 AM)

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#4492733 - 08/19/17 10:55 AM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
f355 Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 8
Loc: NC
Or any feedback on the oil analysis, for that matter?

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#4492774 - 08/19/17 12:07 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41758
Loc: New Jersey
The oil sample seems suspect to me given no lead yet 17Fe and 4Al in an aluminum engine.

Coolant looks like lead solder is getting attacked, but would need to be compared against reputable standards.

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#4492778 - 08/19/17 12:08 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: JHZR2]
f355 Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 8
Loc: NC
Could you elaborate on the iron and aluminum content concerns?

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#4492817 - 08/19/17 01:09 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
Iron is too high, I would have capped this at 10. Don't bother with the aluminum as much as your concern should be the wrist pins here which are going to show up as Nickel. How is this car driven? Because the UOA tells me it's driven very softly and it's likely not fully seated. On these race engines, you need to really be on them often to prevent this kinds of issues from arising.

You need more detailed UOA to really get the picture, seeing strictly ICP data (wear metals) is very limited, there's many more things to UOA than just wear metals.

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#4492882 - 08/19/17 02:47 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4110
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: f355
Thanks for the responses.

The car overall appears in good mechanical and overall condition for it's age and mileage. It will undergo a thorough inspection by the most well known Ferrari mechanic in the state. Apparently, the RadWeld/Coolant Conditioner is a stopgap that many Ferrari techs suggest to solve small coolant leaks - though not a permanent solution of course. Did you know that Subaru recommends that stuff at every coolant change?!?

I'm quite familiar with the maintenance requirements of these sorts of Ferraris and their associated costs. It has all of the known 'bugs' already worked out (steel guides, aftermarket headers, cats gone, interior refinishings, etc.) and has had a comprehensive major service done just over a year ago (belts, bearings, seals, water pump, etc.) The oil analysis shows good results and doesn't suggest any issues with wear or oil/water/fuel mixing. The PPI will include compression and leak down testing to be certain.

What I don't have an understanding of is what high concentrations of elemental lead would lead to long term. I *think* it's due to weldment corrosion, as suggested in the analysis, but what effects this may have is unknown to me. As I said it'll likely need a coolant system overhaul. Does anyone have any feedback on this directly?

Thanks again!


I enjoy seeing someone go after something that they really want. My vehicle choice wasn't nearly as exotic, but I bought a four year old M6 back in 1992. My only regret was that I sold it.
_________________________
Mine:
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Son's
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Buy what makes you smile...

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#4492925 - 08/19/17 03:28 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: danielLD]
f355 Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 8
Loc: NC
Thanks. It was formerly owned by the President of the New York Times for all of the last 18 months. I think it commuted from NJ to NYC if I'm honest and probably spent some time sitting after that; no, it probably wasn't driven hard. I do know the latest owner has tracked it and wouldn't have been as easy on her as he's an experienced racing driver.

Unfortunately, there can't be another sample analysed, besides what's already been done, as the oil plug was dropped and the entire oil tank's contents ended up on the seller's shop floor! I could call Titan and speak with the tech Monday if there is anything else they would have measured besides what's on the sheet. What else should I be looking for?

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#4492999 - 08/19/17 04:50 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: f355
Thanks. It was formerly owned by the President of the New York Times for all of the last 18 months. I think it commuted from NJ to NYC if I'm honest and probably spent some time sitting after that; no, it probably wasn't driven hard. I do know the latest owner has tracked it and wouldn't have been as easy on her as he's an experienced racing driver.

Unfortunately, there can't be another sample analysed, besides what's already been done, as the oil plug was dropped and the entire oil tank's contents ended up on the seller's shop floor! I could call Titan and speak with the tech Monday if there is anything else they would have measured besides what's on the sheet. What else should I be looking for?


Well they gave you a partial FTIR work up. You should have received soot and AW with that reading.

You're going to want Karl Fischer, Gas Chromatography, viscosity at 40c and the index. TAN and TBN. What did this test cost?

On such a beautiful car, I'd recommend a higher quality oil. Congrats.

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#4493298 - 08/19/17 11:37 PM Re: 95 F355 oil and coolant analysis [Re: f355]
Stevie Offline


Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Port Aransas, TX
As Audios said pass on this car. That model is very high maintenance and complicated. Check out the Ferrari 360 as its a much more reliable and robust car. Belts are easy to replace on this model.

Never buy a neglected or abused Ferrari.

I bought a 2 year old Ferrari 308GTSi, owned it for 8 years and sold it for more then I paid for it.

All maintenance was done myself except for belt change $550.

I replace these myself: Water pump $170, clutch $800. Went through lots of tires!
Mine was very dependable.


A Ferrari is a joy to drive and own. I really miss mine.


Edited by Stevie (08/19/17 11:40 PM)

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