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Thermal Break Down #4490773
08/17/17 06:34 AM
08/17/17 06:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
sfloyd33 Offline OP
sfloyd33  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
I drive a 2004 F250 6.0 Powerstroke using Motorcraft 15w40 oil (5000 mile change interval) with motorcraft filters and recently went on a trip towing about 7000lbs my oil temps spiked at 252 with ambient temps of about 92 F, unloaded I usually run around 20 degree deltas. Last winter i had my coolant system flushed new Motor Craft oil cooler installed with new red Rotella anti freeze, coolant filter, etc. I can not afford to do this procedure again so now I am looking for the breakdown temps of diesel rated motor oils for my next change. Does anyone have access to this information. As a bonus anyone have any ideas as to why my temps spiked?

Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4490785
08/17/17 06:47 AM
08/17/17 06:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England
252F is only 122C, nothing to really worry about as a spike. NOACK is tested at 150C (302F) for an hour. Oil flashpoints are usually well over 200C (392F).
Were you towing up steep grades while running the AC?
I've hit over 230F in my little SUV with just my family and a load of softball gear in the Monadnocks in the mid 90s. Thicker oils will tend to run hotter, you could probably run a bit cooler with a HD 10w30 but the oil film thickness will still be greater with the 15W40 under the same conditions even if the latter oil is a bit hotter.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4490802
08/17/17 07:20 AM
08/17/17 07:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
09_GXP Offline
09_GXP  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
I see zero concerns with running 250 F oil temps


2017 Miata Global Cup Car #02 - Castol A3/B4 5w30 w/ OEM Fitler
2017 Miata RF - PP 0w20 w/ M1 Filter
2015 F-150 2.7L Ecoboost - PPPP 5w30 w/ MC
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4490936
08/17/17 09:54 AM
08/17/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
sfloyd33 Offline OP
sfloyd33  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
252F is only 122C, nothing to really worry about as a spike. NOACK is tested at 150C (302F) for an hour. Oil flashpoints are usually well over 200C (392F).
Were you towing up steep grades while running the AC?
I've hit over 230F in my little SUV with just my family and a load of softball gear in the Monadnocks in the mid 90s. Thicker oils will tend to run hotter, you could probably run a bit cooler with a HD 10w30 but the oil film thickness will still be greater with the 15W40 under the same conditions even if the latter oil is a bit hotter.


My oil temps stayed pretty steady in the 250 area for a long time under throttle. However when I was idling the temps came down to a lower level fairly quickly. Yes we were using the AC and running about 75 mph on the interstate through KY.

Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4490959
08/17/17 10:37 AM
08/17/17 10:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 317
MD
claluja Offline
claluja  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 317
MD
If I was hitting 250, I'd switch to a synthetic as they have higher thermal breakdown temps.


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4491055
08/17/17 12:13 PM
08/17/17 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England
Originally Posted By: sfloyd33
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
252F is only 122C, nothing to really worry about as a spike. NOACK is tested at 150C (302F) for an hour. Oil flashpoints are usually well over 200C (392F).
Were you towing up steep grades while running the AC?
I've hit over 230F in my little SUV with just my family and a load of softball gear in the Monadnocks in the mid 90s. Thicker oils will tend to run hotter, you could probably run a bit cooler with a HD 10w30 but the oil film thickness will still be greater with the 15W40 under the same conditions even if the latter oil is a bit hotter.


My oil temps stayed pretty steady in the 250 area for a long time under throttle. However when I was idling the temps came down to a lower level fairly quickly. Yes we were using the AC and running about 75 mph on the interstate through KY.


I'm not sure if it's current, but I found a PDS for Motorcraft 15W40 that claimed a 441F flashpoint (it paired that with 277C, must have been a typo as 441F=227C). I know you're not worried about your oil catching fire, but that number suggests to me that your oil can handle 250F for some time. I wasn't able to find NOACK loss for that oil, but that test is not a good direct comparison for engine use because the sample has a constant air flow over it to immediately carry away anything that vaporizes.

Did you happen to notice any unusual oil consumption due to your trip? If you did, maybe it would be worth looking at an oil that is especially robust at high temps. It not might be a good match for your application and tends to be expensive, but M1 5W30 ESP (Euro diesel oil) has a low NOACK loss of around 6% and a very high 254C (489F) flashpoint. Its 3.58 HTHS is very close to some XW40 oils, M1 0W40 FS is around 3.6.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4491072
08/17/17 12:29 PM
08/17/17 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,121
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,121
upstate NY
I don't think you need to worry about the 250-ish temps. I give dnewton3 credit for easing my mind a few years ago when I had similar oil temps in my big Volvos.

I had two Volvo class 8 trucks (D13 engines) that were programmed to run higher oil temps than any other truck engine I had owned/driven before. The oil cooler would only cool the oil to 239F and let it go to 247 or so before cooling again. On longer pulls in high ambient temps, the oil temp would remain around 250, and over the course of an oci, it added up to hours spent at 250.

I posted a few UOAs that showed that the oil held up fine, in that they didn't oxidize into a mess. The viscosity was in good shape regardless of the oil. I used Rotella, Delo and Kendall 15W40 and Delvac Elite 10W30 and they all handled it fine, as did the engines.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 101k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4491197
08/17/17 02:43 PM
08/17/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,288
oh
roadrunner1 Offline
roadrunner1  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,288
oh
You have a 6.0, oil temps are extremely critical, no worries about the oil but if you are still seeing a 20F delta you oil cooler is partially clogged.
The 6.0 oil cooler test is 65 mph unloaded and relatively flat ground, your delta should be no more than 10F with a new cooler, with 15F acceptable. If you are seeing a 20F delta towing this is also acceptable and your 252F temp is normal.

I was in the seat of a 6.0 for 12 years and never experienced an engine issue, I know not the norm. On my '07 I made the switch to 10w-30 and never looked back. UOA every OC at 7,500 mi. and they were all exceptional with my last one going 215,000 mi. before trading it in on my current 6.7 because of rust issues not mechanical.
My advice to you is to install a coolant filter asap as the setup on a 6.0 the oil cooler acts as the coolant filter, as you have already discovered.
Try a 10w-30, I never had an issue and all of my UOA's are posted in the HDEO section on here.

A synthetic oil is not needed in your application as I proved that already with my two 6.0's.

Last edited by roadrunner1; 08/17/17 02:47 PM. Reason: sp

'15 F350 6.7
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4491464
08/17/17 08:44 PM
08/17/17 08:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina
252 degrees is nothing for motor oil, Not even a concern. Even short bursts up to 300.
Small concern if you start running 275+ on a regular basis.

But yes, nothing wrong with doing some research. Some oils will be better then others at extremes but 252 is not in any way an extreme.


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4491468
08/17/17 08:48 PM
08/17/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: alarmguy] #4491678
08/18/17 07:26 AM
08/18/17 07:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,405
New England


I just read "23. Multi-viscosity motor oils are not exactly what some people think" and it convinced me to never open that page again.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: dustyroads] #4491713
08/18/17 08:08 AM
08/18/17 08:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
sfloyd33 Offline OP
sfloyd33  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Ky
The thing that is kicking me in the butt is that I installed a new Motorcraft oil cooler less than a year ago along with a very good Extended Life Coolant and filter. I have a Insight CTS 2 electronic gauge setup and that is what I am going off of for my oil temps. Does anyone think it possible that this gauge is lying to me and if so how would i tell?

Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4492140
08/18/17 04:58 PM
08/18/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,288
oh
roadrunner1 Offline
roadrunner1  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,288
oh
Originally Posted By: sfloyd33
The thing that is kicking me in the butt is that I installed a new Motorcraft oil cooler less than a year ago along with a very good Extended Life Coolant and filter. I have a Insight CTS 2 electronic gauge setup and that is what I am going off of for my oil temps. Does anyone think it possible that this gauge is lying to me and if so how would i tell?


Have you run the test as I described in the previous post to determine if you are within spec or not?

Your gauge is reading what the engines computer is telling it, as long as your monitor is programmed properly is reading properly.

I don't want to alarm you but its very possible your new oil cooler is clogged as it happened to thousands of others who replaced the oil cooler and didn't completely/effectively flush the cooling system.
First verify if your monitor is reading correctly and preform the test as I described before jumping to conclusions, as I said earlier if your delta is 20F while towing thats completely normal.


'15 F350 6.7
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4492754
08/19/17 10:41 AM
08/19/17 10:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,561
South Carolina
Just one other note to the OP about "thermal breakdown" as others including myself said 250 degrees for motoroil is nothing.
But as far as facts go, if you research you will find out that API SN oil requires any oil rated SN to pass a ONE HUNDRED HOUR sequence test at 300 degrees F.
Im just saying that to give support to the statements in here that 250 degrees is nothing, you can even look further and I think you will see the same for any C only rated oil.


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Thermal Break Down [Re: sfloyd33] #4492797
08/19/17 11:34 AM
08/19/17 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,242
Texas
JustinH Offline
JustinH  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,242
Texas
A UOA would be in order for this vehicle. See if the oil is up to the task of your towing.


'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
'11 Scion XB
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