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How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 #4490316
08/16/17 04:08 PM
08/16/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,521
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,521
'Stralia
Have oft wondered what makes some carp species so invasive, and able to live in conditions that other fish can't, including under ice sheets for months at a time.

Found out yesterday that they have two metabolic paths, one that functions in zero O2...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/214...l-inside-cells/

The new scientist article skips a step.

When they process carbs aerobically, they process it like we do.

When they process it anearobically, they produce lactic acid just like we do, but have another parth that conversts the lactic acid into ethanol, which is dissipated through their gills into the water.

Apparently they live in this state with a BAC of 0.05 to 0.1, waiting for the oxygen to come back.

Nature is amazing.

(and carp are forever)

Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490321
08/16/17 04:16 PM
08/16/17 04:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,873
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Global Moderator
Kestas  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,873
The Motor City
Carp are a big topic in the Great Lakes area. They are essentially knocking at the door of Lake Michigan, ready to invade the whole water ecosystem. The only thing holding them back is a few electric fences in canals in the Chicagoland area. These battles with nature and bioinfestation never end well.

Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490325
08/16/17 04:19 PM
08/16/17 04:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,474
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,474
Kendall, FL
Very interesting. I wonder if the Beta (Betta splendens) shares this adaptation to some extent.


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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490338
08/16/17 04:33 PM
08/16/17 04:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
Carp could feed the world.
Except me of course...

Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: AirgunSavant] #4490340
08/16/17 04:36 PM
08/16/17 04:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,173
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,173
Texas
The cafe next to our office in Bucharest served carp - and I found their translation to English to be fitting: Cra-
ending in p

Last edited by 4WD; 08/16/17 04:38 PM.
Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: 4WD] #4490349
08/16/17 04:52 PM
08/16/17 04:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
Originally Posted By: 4WD
The cafe next to our office in Bucharest served carp - and I found their translation to English to be fitting: Cra-
ending in p


lol......

Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490352
08/16/17 04:54 PM
08/16/17 04:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
Now if Turbots were like that


Always Mobil 1
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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490359
08/16/17 04:59 PM
08/16/17 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,918
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
SirTanon Offline
SirTanon  Offline

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,918
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
Don't forget about Joe Tess' Place in Omaha, NE. They serve carp all sorts of ways, from fried,chowder, sandwich..

I've never had it, but apparently it's quite popular. Was even featured on Diners, Drive-ins, and Dives.


2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 271,000mi
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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490364
08/16/17 05:20 PM
08/16/17 05:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
bioburner Offline
bioburner  Offline

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
Bowfishing them here in MN has become a great sport with the blessing of the DNR. Addictive sport. Often see posts when they will be shooting carp to get people to recycle them-fish meal. I like them smoked. Mong population eat lot of what they catch



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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490381
08/16/17 05:44 PM
08/16/17 05:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Rick in PA Offline
Rick in PA  Offline

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Ah, anaerobic respiration, 10th grade biology, taught by Ed Klavon. I always liked Mr. Klavon, he was a good teacher and a good person.

Lesson as remembered: working a muscle beyond the capability of oxygen as delivered by the blood stream, it goes into anaerobic respiration, and builds up lactic acid in the muscle. Breaking down the lactic acid takes time, and it's this process that causes sore muscles the day after the work out. Lesson learned, thanks Mr. Klavon.

The reduction to ethanol is an interesting twist. Yes nature is amazing.


A wise man told me:
"Heat is your friend." and "Any oil is better than no oil."
Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490418
08/16/17 06:15 PM
08/16/17 06:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
If you could stop breathing only to get drunk, you'd probably be invasive too wink


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Shannow] #4490424
08/16/17 06:30 PM
08/16/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,074
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,074
New Zealand
Koi Carp are in our lakes and rivers, destroying the eco system. Almost impossible to get rid of.


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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: Kestas] #4490474
08/16/17 07:19 PM
08/16/17 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Carp are a big topic in the Great Lakes area. They are essentially knocking at the door of Lake Michigan, ready to invade the whole water ecosystem. The only thing holding them back is a few electric fences in canals in the Chicagoland area. These battles with nature and bioinfestation never end well.


You are describing the higly invasive Asian Carp.

Lake Michigan has a healthy population of Common Carp introduced 100 years ago.


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: wemay] #4490526
08/16/17 08:21 PM
08/16/17 08:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,430
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,430
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: wemay
Very interesting. I wonder if the Beta (Betta splendens) shares this adaptation to some extent.


Yep,because they can breathe underwater with their gills as well as breathe air out of the water. Amazing fish!!


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Re: How goldfish and some carp survive 0% O2 [Re: aquariuscsm] #4490562
08/16/17 09:01 PM
08/16/17 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,227
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,227
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: wemay
Very interesting. I wonder if the Beta (Betta splendens) shares this adaptation to some extent.


Yep,because they can breathe underwater with their gills as well as breathe air out of the water. Amazing fish!!


True, but being a tropical fish, Beta cannot tolerate temperatures below the mid 60F range for any length of time.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
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