Recent Topics
Advice on spark plugs for 90,000 mile Accord
by Chris B.. 12/13/18 11:24 PM
Elec star kit for predator engine...
by SmokeyBear. 12/13/18 11:07 PM
Mecredes Bosch vs Ngk sparks plug
by Rohan. 12/13/18 09:48 PM
Wife problem?
by penguin. 12/13/18 08:04 PM
2008 Chevy Malibu 3.6L V6
by lordcheeto. 12/13/18 07:36 PM
power company merged and I got the shaft
by motor_oil_madman. 12/13/18 07:19 PM
Space heater burnt smell
by BossMoss. 12/13/18 07:13 PM
Shell Helix Ultra Maserati 10W-60
by wemay. 12/13/18 06:53 PM
Cox Modem Info???
by Gebo. 12/13/18 06:39 PM
How are these Road Force values?
by mclasser. 12/13/18 05:19 PM
Finally broke down a bought a trailer
by BeerCan. 12/13/18 04:25 PM
What oil for '19 Subaru WRX?
by TKNY. 12/13/18 04:12 PM
Splitting wedges
by buck91. 12/13/18 04:00 PM
Avoiding rust in the rust belt states?
by Chris B.. 12/13/18 03:00 PM
Newest Members
Ericbrooks, Japanese, lordcheeto, WondrousBread, slickoo9
66672 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
50 registered members (BrandonT, 4WD, alarmguy, chance, bullwinkle, Char Baby, 7 invisible), 1,021 guests, and 39 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics295,047
Posts4,926,805
Members66,672
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold #4489192
08/15/17 10:37 AM
08/15/17 10:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
planeman223 Offline OP
planeman223  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
Good day BITOGers,

My Lexus LS460 with an 8 speed Aisin AA80E transmission with 102,000 miles has a habit of flaring from 2nd to 3rd when the engine has just been started after sitting overnight. The flare is very small (300-500rpm) and it's very smooth. (There is no jerking, slamming into gear etc) Once it's warm it operates normally and I do not observe any slip/flare. The transmission has been serviced (drain and fill completed by Lexus dealer at 82,000 and 98,000 miles) using Toyota World Star fluid.

The strange thing is... When I manually shift through the gears there is no slip/flare at all even when stone cold. ClubLexus has a lengthy thread of over 15 members observing this behavior of all mileages.

What would you guys/gals do in my situation? Thank you for your advice.

Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489200
08/15/17 10:56 AM
08/15/17 10:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
incognito_2u Offline
incognito_2u  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
How's the fluid level?


2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -110k (PUP/XG3600)
2006 Toyota Corolla 1.8 VVTi -79k (PPHM/XG4386)
1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -80k (PUP/XG4386)
1998 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -62k (PUP/XG4386)
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: incognito_2u] #4489210
08/15/17 11:05 AM
08/15/17 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
planeman223 Offline OP
planeman223  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
Originally Posted By: incognito_2u
How's the fluid level?



Within factory specification.

Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489253
08/15/17 11:59 AM
08/15/17 11:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
bigt61 Offline
bigt61  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
If it's a common problem, all you can do is drive it easy until it's warm. Maybe, in time, Lexus will offer to fix it. But there will have to be a few total failures for it to get on their radar.


92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489254
08/15/17 12:01 PM
08/15/17 12:01 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
lexus114 Offline
lexus114  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
was the fluid ever changed?


2017 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic coupe 2.0 turbo
2016 Lexus RX 350 Autumn Shimmer AWD
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489267
08/15/17 12:14 PM
08/15/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,204
CA
The Critic Offline
The Critic  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,204
CA
The fluid level is probably wrong since the trans shifts fine once warmed up. The fluid level rises once warmed up.

It is difficult to get the fluid level correct- it takes a lot of time and the trans must be cool unless they use the new SST (not sure if that one even works on the 8spd). If you only brought the car in for a drain and refill, the car was probably not in there long enough for the fluid to cool down to <100f - so the fluid level may have been estimated.


2011 Toyota Prius - 178k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 133K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: The Critic] #4489385
08/15/17 01:58 PM
08/15/17 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
incognito_2u Offline
incognito_2u  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The fluid level is probably wrong since the trans shifts fine once warmed up. The fluid level rises once warmed up.


This ^^

My Jeep has the NAG1......also very difficult to get the level right even after a change.
Had the same symptoms as you.
It also took me a while to adjust it to the best level

Last edited by incognito_2u; 08/15/17 02:00 PM.

2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -110k (PUP/XG3600)
2006 Toyota Corolla 1.8 VVTi -79k (PPHM/XG4386)
1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -80k (PUP/XG4386)
1998 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -62k (PUP/XG4386)
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: incognito_2u] #4489387
08/15/17 02:00 PM
08/15/17 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,968
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,968
OH
Here's a 35 minute video on how to check the ATF level from a college instructor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg

Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489470
08/15/17 03:34 PM
08/15/17 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
planeman223 Offline OP
planeman223  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
Thank you all for your kind replies and advice. I will have the level checked next week while it's in service. My last question concerning this behavior is why would I be able to manually shift with no slip? Wouldn't it slip then also? It doesn't.

Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489572
08/15/17 05:32 PM
08/15/17 05:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
When you say manually shift... You're using a sport mode right? My theory is the transmission is programmed for higher shift pressure when in sport mode. This would make sense for sporty/aggressive driving. You don't want slip when under heavy acceleration.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489625
08/15/17 06:24 PM
08/15/17 06:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,926
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,926
Florida, Cape Coral
I just reviewed Toyota video on how to check the ATF level. The exercise appears to be something a kid came up with. How does a company with thousands of engineers & scientist, design a AT that is so bleeping sensitive to fluid level. A really dumb setup in my opinion. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4489656
08/15/17 07:00 PM
08/15/17 07:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,565
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,565
Toronto
Maybe it's just botched pressure control logic, something a reflash can [eventually] solve. All those members experiencing the same thing has got to suggest it's not a one-off issue. The flare may not even be from clutchpack or brake-band engagement, it could be as simple as ill-timed TC release for the shift. Some modern autos lockup the TC on even the lower gears, and momentarily unlock/slip it for the shifts. Who knows, but it seems like a logic issue to me.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4489905
08/16/17 05:46 AM
08/16/17 05:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
planeman223 Offline OP
planeman223  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Charlotte
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
When you say manually shift... You're using a sport mode right? My theory is the transmission is programmed for higher shift pressure when in sport mode. This would make sense for sporty/aggressive driving. You don't want slip when under heavy acceleration.


It's off to the side +/- where you can manually push the lever for an upshift and pull for a downshift. In this manual mode there is no slip even when stone cold.

Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: Eddie] #4490018
08/16/17 08:57 AM
08/16/17 08:57 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
lexus114 Offline
lexus114  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,298
Easton, PA
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I just reviewed Toyota video on how to check the ATF level. The exercise appears to be something a kid came up with. How does a company with thousands of engineers & scientist, design a AT that is so bleeping sensitive to fluid level. A really dumb setup in my opinion. Ed


Agreed! friggin stupid


2017 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic coupe 2.0 turbo
2016 Lexus RX 350 Autumn Shimmer AWD
Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223] #4491020
08/17/17 11:33 AM
08/17/17 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,459
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,459
California
Toyota made that tool specifically for the FWD 6 speeds, the RWD units don't call for it.

Double-check the fluid level both cold & hot(you need to put the tranny in "service mode" where the D light will be on once you hit the hot check temp or Techstream). Use the check plug, it should trickle if the level is OK.

Wouldn't hurt to see if there's a new calibration/firmware for the PCM.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™