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#4489192 - 08/15/17 11:37 AM 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold
planeman223 Offline


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 72
Loc: Charlotte
Good day BITOGers,

My Lexus LS460 with an 8 speed Aisin AA80E transmission with 102,000 miles has a habit of flaring from 2nd to 3rd when the engine has just been started after sitting overnight. The flare is very small (300-500rpm) and it's very smooth. (There is no jerking, slamming into gear etc) Once it's warm it operates normally and I do not observe any slip/flare. The transmission has been serviced (drain and fill completed by Lexus dealer at 82,000 and 98,000 miles) using Toyota World Star fluid.

The strange thing is... When I manually shift through the gears there is no slip/flare at all even when stone cold. ClubLexus has a lengthy thread of over 15 members observing this behavior of all mileages.

What would you guys/gals do in my situation? Thank you for your advice.

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#4489200 - 08/15/17 11:56 AM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
incognito_2u Offline


Registered: 12/15/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Long Island, N.Y.
How's the fluid level?
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2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -108k (PUP/XG3600)
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1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -77k (PUP/XG4386)

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#4489210 - 08/15/17 12:05 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: incognito_2u]
planeman223 Offline


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 72
Loc: Charlotte
Originally Posted By: incognito_2u
How's the fluid level?



Within factory specification.

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#4489253 - 08/15/17 12:59 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
bigt61 Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 3117
Loc: Virginia
If it's a common problem, all you can do is drive it easy until it's warm. Maybe, in time, Lexus will offer to fix it. But there will have to be a few total failures for it to get on their radar.
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#4489254 - 08/15/17 01:01 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 6298
Loc: Easton, PA
was the fluid ever changed?
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#4489267 - 08/15/17 01:14 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 19806
Loc: CA
The fluid level is probably wrong since the trans shifts fine once warmed up. The fluid level rises once warmed up.

It is difficult to get the fluid level correct- it takes a lot of time and the trans must be cool unless they use the new SST (not sure if that one even works on the 8spd). If you only brought the car in for a drain and refill, the car was probably not in there long enough for the fluid to cool down to <100f - so the fluid level may have been estimated.
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#4489385 - 08/15/17 02:58 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: The Critic]
incognito_2u Offline


Registered: 12/15/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Long Island, N.Y.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The fluid level is probably wrong since the trans shifts fine once warmed up. The fluid level rises once warmed up.


This ^^

My Jeep has the NAG1......also very difficult to get the level right even after a change.
Had the same symptoms as you.
It also took me a while to adjust it to the best level


Edited by incognito_2u (08/15/17 03:00 PM)
_________________________
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1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -77k (PUP/XG4386)

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#4489387 - 08/15/17 03:00 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: incognito_2u]
SatinSilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 10165
Loc: OH
Here's a 35 minute video on how to check the ATF level from a college instructor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg

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#4489470 - 08/15/17 04:34 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
planeman223 Offline


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 72
Loc: Charlotte
Thank you all for your kind replies and advice. I will have the level checked next week while it's in service. My last question concerning this behavior is why would I be able to manually shift with no slip? Wouldn't it slip then also? It doesn't.

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#4489572 - 08/15/17 06:32 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1658
Loc: Crawfordville FL
When you say manually shift... You're using a sport mode right? My theory is the transmission is programmed for higher shift pressure when in sport mode. This would make sense for sporty/aggressive driving. You don't want slip when under heavy acceleration.
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#4489625 - 08/15/17 07:24 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
Eddie Online   sleepy


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 9567
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
I just reviewed Toyota video on how to check the ATF level. The exercise appears to be something a kid came up with. How does a company with thousands of engineers & scientist, design a AT that is so bleeping sensitive to fluid level. A really dumb setup in my opinion. Ed
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#4489656 - 08/15/17 08:00 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1345
Loc: toronto
Maybe it's just botched pressure control logic, something a reflash can [eventually] solve. All those members experiencing the same thing has got to suggest it's not a one-off issue. The flare may not even be from clutchpack or brake-band engagement, it could be as simple as ill-timed TC release for the shift. Some modern autos lockup the TC on even the lower gears, and momentarily unlock/slip it for the shifts. Who knows, but it seems like a logic issue to me.

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#4489905 - 08/16/17 06:46 AM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: SilverFusion2010]
planeman223 Offline


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 72
Loc: Charlotte
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
When you say manually shift... You're using a sport mode right? My theory is the transmission is programmed for higher shift pressure when in sport mode. This would make sense for sporty/aggressive driving. You don't want slip when under heavy acceleration.


It's off to the side +/- where you can manually push the lever for an upshift and pull for a downshift. In this manual mode there is no slip even when stone cold.

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#4490018 - 08/16/17 09:57 AM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: Eddie]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 6298
Loc: Easton, PA
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I just reviewed Toyota video on how to check the ATF level. The exercise appears to be something a kid came up with. How does a company with thousands of engineers & scientist, design a AT that is so bleeping sensitive to fluid level. A really dumb setup in my opinion. Ed


Agreed! friggin stupid
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#4491020 - 08/17/17 12:33 PM Re: 2012 Lexus LS460 Shift Flare when cold [Re: planeman223]
nthach Offline


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3898
Loc: California
Toyota made that tool specifically for the FWD 6 speeds, the RWD units don't call for it.

Double-check the fluid level both cold & hot(you need to put the tranny in "service mode" where the D light will be on once you hit the hot check temp or Techstream). Use the check plug, it should trickle if the level is OK.

Wouldn't hurt to see if there's a new calibration/firmware for the PCM.

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