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Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine #4486978
08/12/17 11:31 PM
08/12/17 11:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,273
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline OP
john_pifer  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,273
Nashville, TN via Memphis
A really neat engine. No doubt, many of you have heard of it, but, I'm sure some have not.

2-stroke, 9 or 18 cylinders with 18 or 36 pistons arranged in a triangular, or, "delta" configuration, no cylinder head or valvetrain, 3 crankshafts, 1 of which turns the oppposite direction of the other 2...

Fantastic power-weight ratio compared to contemporary, conventional-design diesels and a lot more compact and approximately 1/5 the weight!

Designed in the 1950s for marine use. Also used in locomotives as well as in a one-off firefighting pump trailer rig for the NYFD!

Anybody have experience with it?

Read up on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic


16 WRX - PPPP
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Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4486998
08/13/17 12:22 AM
08/13/17 12:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
The Deltic is a marvelous engine. It's still in use! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_mine_countermeasures_vessel
I was actually reading about it a couple weeks ago. I love unconventional engine designs.


I remember reading about some Russian tanks with opposed piston, opposed cylinder OPOC engines too. The things they did to achieve their goals were pretty interesting.


btw John_Pifer, did you check this out? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvezda_M503 - this Soviet radial diesel was used to power some extremely fast missile boats; boats that went higher than 40 knots.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487012
08/13/17 12:53 AM
08/13/17 12:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,887
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,887
Central Washington
Yas! Ive read up on those a lot. You can find some videos of them running on YouTube.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
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Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487020
08/13/17 01:43 AM
08/13/17 01:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,564
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,564
'Stralia
Not to take anything away from the Deltic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205

Junkers made one in the 30s light enough to power bombers.

Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487024
08/13/17 01:51 AM
08/13/17 01:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,564
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,564
'Stralia
And a bit more common down here, the Commer "knocker" did away with the second crankshaft and used rockers to effect the opposed piston thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer_TS3

A currently defunct lcal tourist railway has rail motors powered by the Commer engine...they sound amazing.


Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487026
08/13/17 02:13 AM
08/13/17 02:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,895
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,895
New Zealand
I grew up to the sound of the Commer TS3, an uncle had one, and my father used to work on them, something he specialised in at one stage. By the time I was working on trucks the TS3 was fading away...but I did get to work on some, and drive them too. My favorite sound of all time.

He's got an Eaton 2 speed diff on that one...most of them did.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487028
08/13/17 02:27 AM
08/13/17 02:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Love those two stroke diesels. They sound fantastic. Seems like they're pretty sporty compared to four strokers.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487145
08/13/17 08:01 AM
08/13/17 08:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,679
Cedarbrae, Ontario
xxch4osxx Offline
xxch4osxx  Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,679
Cedarbrae, Ontario
Sounds similar to a Detroit diesel at certain rpms. I wonder if those Commer engines leaked oil as bad as the Detroits did?


2015 RAM SXT Crew Cab 5.7 with 6 speed tranny.

2008 Mazda 3 GS Sport Hatchback 5sp MT (Girlfriend's car)

Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: xxch4osxx] #4487148
08/13/17 08:08 AM
08/13/17 08:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
Sounds similar to a Detroit diesel at certain rpms. I wonder if those Commer engines leaked oil as bad as the Detroits did?


Yes, reminded me a lot of our old city busses, which were GM units powered by 2-stroke DD's.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487209
08/13/17 09:43 AM
08/13/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
Yep. Napier specialized in weird. They seemed to go for complexity as an end in itself.

They designed the Lion W12 aircraft engine in WWI, and it was still being used as a torpedo boat engine in WWII, and even was used by John Cobb to set land speed records in 1947.

They designed the Sabre H24 sleeve valve aircraft engine in WWII for the Hawker Tempest. It was reputed capable of producing 3500HP out of its 2240 cubic inches. Manufacturing and developmental difficulties of the Sabre drove Napier into bankruptcy, and they were bought out by English Electric.

They designed the Nomad flat-12 two-stroke turbocompound diesel for commercial aircraft after WWII.

The Deltic was another in a long line of complex, unique engines. Napier had built the Culverin OP diesel aircraft engine in the 30's under license from Junkers. It was a copy of the 204 Junkers. Then they realized that by adding another crankshaft, they could add two more cylinder banks to the OP engine form. The engines in the Deltic locomotives were blown via a mechanically-driven centrifugal compressor, and made 2500 HP out of 88 liters displacement. Later developments for the Dark and Nasty-class torpedo boats used turbochargers and produced up to 4000 HP. Experimental turbocompound versions of the Deltic made up to 5600HP.

There are quite a few YouTube videos of Deltic locomotives. The engines sound like Detroit Diesels on Benzedrine. They smoke a lot, though. It would be great to put modern common-rail diesel fuel injection systems on the Deltic and see how clean and economical they could be.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: john_pifer] #4487404
08/13/17 01:10 PM
08/13/17 01:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,283
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline
Al  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,283
Elizabethtown, Pa
Napier Sabre Aircraft Engine used by the British was an amazing engine designed by Britain. They tried to get some American companies interested. But it was judged unduly complicated and it would take a long time to mass produce. Of course an American company (Packard) took the Merlin engine and improved it and made more of them than the Brits.



The Pratt R-2800 ultimately was the best aircraft engine of WW II

Last edited by Al; 08/13/17 01:12 PM.

Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: Al] #4487422
08/13/17 01:28 PM
08/13/17 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: Al

The Pratt R-2800 ultimately was the best aircraft engine of WW II

The best? Them's fightin' words. The Wright Cyclone is still in service today as a matter of fact, in firefighting P2V Neptunes.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Napier Deltic Opposed-Piston Diesel Engine [Re: Al] #4487503
08/13/17 02:43 PM
08/13/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,215
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Papa Bear Offline
Papa Bear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,215
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Originally Posted By: Al



Looks like a constipated octopus .... wink2


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