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Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) #4485437
08/11/17 08:19 AM
08/11/17 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
alex_at Offline OP
alex_at  Offline OP

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
Hi,

I have a question about engines that have nikasil plated cylinders, or cylinders that are made of Suzukis SCEM (Suzuki Composite Electrochemical Material)

Do these engines need a special oil?
I do have in the back of my head, i think it was KTM that they only specified their oil because of the nikasil plated cylinders ...


Thanks

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485467
08/11/17 08:49 AM
08/11/17 08:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,595
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,595
Slovenia EU
I doubt........high end 2stroke racing cylinders are all nikasil plated....and they use/need just (high end) 2stroke oil.....


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485515
08/11/17 09:24 AM
08/11/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,283
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,283
Midwest, Illinois
Nothing special required.
BMW airheads have a similar Gilasil coating, and do very well on 20w50 conventional.


beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485578
08/11/17 10:21 AM
08/11/17 10:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,226
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,226
Port Orange, Florida
No special oil required. This just basically a chrome plated cylinder that most bikes come factory with. No different than any other cylinder.
When the plating wears off or is damaged in a detonation you have to sleeve the cylinder. They cannot be bored.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485620
08/11/17 11:14 AM
08/11/17 11:14 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
alex_at Offline OP
alex_at  Offline OP

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
thanks for the input guys

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485748
08/11/17 01:30 PM
08/11/17 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,567
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,567
The Canyons
Nothing special is required. Although my bikes seem to run best on a diet of Motul 300V 4T.

I've been running an overbored block on my bored and stroked Hayabusa, for about 10 years now. They CAN be bored (assuming there's enough material to overbore) and replated. Often, damaged bores can be repaired, too.

Millenium Technologies

I periodically check how the cylinders are looking with a bore scope. So far, everything looks great.

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485783
08/11/17 02:05 PM
08/11/17 02:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,458
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,458
Midwest USA
Only caveat with Nikasil is can't tolerate high sulphur content in fuel or oil. High sulphur will destroy nikasil. This was a problem for certain Jaguar cars in the 80's and 90's before federal fuel regs cleaned up sulphur content in retail gasoline. If I remember right...



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: beanoil] #4485790
08/11/17 02:11 PM
08/11/17 02:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
HerrStig Offline
HerrStig  Offline

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Nothing special required.
BMW airheads have a similar Gilasil coating, and do very well on 20w50 conventional.
Airheads and 20W 50 are good friends.

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485801
08/11/17 02:24 PM
08/11/17 02:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Pretty much all aircraft cylinders have been for 30+ years now


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4485956
08/11/17 05:45 PM
08/11/17 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,109
Ruidoso, NM USA
ammolab Offline
ammolab  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,109
Ruidoso, NM USA
My BMW K75C had Nikasil cylinders and went 142,000 miles on regular "car oil". It had new spec compression and burned no oil until I wrecked it two years ago...


2009 Honda CR-V
2011 BMW R1200R
2005 Kaw Ninja 250
1994 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L
2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: Panzerman] #4486012
08/11/17 07:13 PM
08/11/17 07:13 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 383
Montreal, Canada
Mik Offline
Mik  Offline

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 383
Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
No special oil required. This just basically a chrome plated cylinder that most bikes come factory with. No different than any other cylinder.
When the plating wears off or is damaged in a detonation you have to sleeve the cylinder. They cannot be bored.


Nikasil has nothing to do with chrome; chrome is for all intents and purposes, now obsolete as a cylinder coating. Nikasil is a matrix of silicon carbide in nickel. They may look the same (shiny and metallic) but are two totally different animals

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4486158
08/11/17 10:12 PM
08/11/17 10:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,175
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,175
Kalifornia Kollective
Nikasil does not take well to beating and banging. So stay away from "ping" at all costs.

Buddies older Guzzi lost a lot of plating when he timed it for better fuel economy. In the end, was not worth it ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: alex_at] #4486217
08/12/17 12:13 AM
08/12/17 12:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 583
Wisconsin
Srt20 Offline
Srt20  Offline

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 583
Wisconsin
Nikasil is actually very tough. Ive never seen Nikasil sustain damage without the piston being completely trashed. And Ive seen alot of trashed pistons with good Nikasil yet.

We have a sled engine pushing 240hp out of a 2 cylinder 795cc 2 stroke with Nikasil coated cylinders. We use Mystic 2 stroke oil at $9/gal on sale. The engine, including the Nikasil handles it all just fine.

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: Srt20] #4486476
08/12/17 11:32 AM
08/12/17 11:32 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 383
Montreal, Canada
Mik Offline
Mik  Offline

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 383
Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Nikasil is actually very tough. Ive never seen Nikasil sustain damage without the piston being completely trashed. And Ive seen alot of trashed pistons with good Nikasil yet.

We have a sled engine pushing 240hp out of a 2 cylinder 795cc 2 stroke with Nikasil coated cylinders. We use Mystic 2 stroke oil at $9/gal on sale. The engine, including the Nikasil handles it all just fine.


ah, two-strokes smile

Re: Nikasil plated cylinders (or Suzuki SCEM) [Re: BrocLuno] #4486538
08/12/17 01:14 PM
08/12/17 01:14 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
alex_at Offline OP
alex_at  Offline OP

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 125
Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Nikasil does not take well to beating and banging. So stay away from "ping" at all costs.

Buddies older Guzzi lost a lot of plating when he timed it for better fuel economy. In the end, was not worth it ...


what about piston slap when the engine is cold?
My Suzuki has a pretty audible piston slap, front cylinder only, according to Suzuki perfectly normal?

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