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Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles #4484289
08/10/17 06:03 AM
08/10/17 06:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline OP
billt460  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
It looks as if they are finally realizing that going to war with a high powered .22 varmint rifle is becoming a lesson in futility.

"The ultimate objective of the program is to acquire and field a 7.62mm ICSR that will increase Soldier lethality."

http://www.guns.com/2017/08/07/army-looking-for-up-to-50000-new-select-fire-7-62mm-service-rifles/

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484304
08/10/17 06:33 AM
08/10/17 06:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,800
SD
zrxkawboy Offline
zrxkawboy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,800
SD
Why does someone always have to bring up politics?


"Think of all the Ford owners who will someday want an automobile." John Dodge

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484315
08/10/17 06:41 AM
08/10/17 06:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
The "infighting" with this issue must consume wicked amounts of tax dollars while they duke it out...

It keeps coming up over and over and over and over...

The truth is, most "special teams" can order whatever they want.
and always, always, always pick the weapons off your dead enemies.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484316
08/10/17 06:42 AM
08/10/17 06:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,736
Rochester, NY
NateDN10 Offline
NateDN10  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,736
Rochester, NY
What happened to 6.8 SPC?


2016 Mazda3 - 20,000 mi.
2011 Toyota Sienna - 100,000 mi.
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484317
08/10/17 06:42 AM
08/10/17 06:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 209
NY
DdDd Offline
DdDd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 209
NY
It's called a joke. There is absolutely nothing political about my comments.

Why does somebody always have to claim politics to lock a thread. Are people that touchy about their chosen ideology? In case you haven't noticed DC is quite amusing.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: DdDd] #4484333
08/10/17 06:56 AM
08/10/17 06:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
By always, I guess that you are stating that you aren't that much of a newbie, but have been previously banned.

Do the mods a favour, and state outright which banned account you were, so hopefully Bill's thread keeps motoring.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484335
08/10/17 06:59 AM
08/10/17 06:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,968
IL
Vern_in_IL Offline
Vern_in_IL  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,968
IL
This means a 50% rise in ammo prices? Whatever they find they going to take it off the consumer market.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: NateDN10] #4484336
08/10/17 07:04 AM
08/10/17 07:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline OP
billt460  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
What happened to 6.8 SPC?


It's not a NATO cartridge. The military always looks for standardization with it's NATO allies. It's the main reason we dropped the .45 ACP in favor of the 9 MM back in 1985. While the 6.8 SPC can be considered a ballistically effective cartridge, it is an oddball. The 7.62 X 51 MM, (.308), has been around forever. And the military already has tons of ammunition stockpiled in that caliber. And it offers a huge ballistic improvement over the .22. So it isn't surprising that's the cartridge they want to run with.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484337
08/10/17 07:04 AM
08/10/17 07:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 593
Margate England
Claud Offline
Claud  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 593
Margate England
No good coming up with a great gun without great soldiers properly trained in its use.

Claud.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Claud] #4484342
08/10/17 07:10 AM
08/10/17 07:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,803
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,803
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Claud
No good coming up with a great gun without great soldiers properly trained in its use.

Claud.


We do have those great soldiers.

Are you suggesting otherwise?


32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: DdDd] #4484343
08/10/17 07:11 AM
08/10/17 07:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,803
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,803
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: DdDd
It's called a joke. There is absolutely nothing political about my comments.

Why does somebody always have to claim politics to lock a thread. Are people that touchy about their chosen ideology? In case you haven't noticed DC is quite amusing.


It was inherently political.

Are you unable to see that?


32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4484345
08/10/17 07:14 AM
08/10/17 07:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline OP
billt460  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
This means a 50% rise in ammo prices? Whatever they find they going to take it off the consumer market.


I would say just the opposite. The more the military invests in a cartridge, the cheaper the ammo becomes. Look at .223 / 5.56 MM compared to .222, or .22-250. It can be had for less than half of what the ballistically competitive commercial cartridges go for. Same with the .308 / 7.62-51 MM. Cabela's has it on sale for just $10.99 a box, (20 rounds). Again, compare that to similar size and power commercial calibers. Same deal with 9 MM compared to .38 Special.

The best example is the .50 BMG. You can buy it all day long for $2.50 a round if you shop around. Compare it to any of the Weatherby Magnum, Rigby, or H&H Magnum cartridges. It is many times cheaper per round. While at the same time contains over twice the brass, powder, and lead of the others. And has far more power. Military standardization is the reason why.

Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484349
08/10/17 07:18 AM
08/10/17 07:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,255
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,255
NJ
I read something I couldn't believe but appears to be true. There is something like a ratio of 50,000 shots fired per each enemy combatant killed. not counting snipers.

Just a crazy high number. Does it really matter that much about ballistics?

Them bigger bullets weigh more and not all soldiers want to lug around the heavier rifle and ammo.

Regardless, let the military decide what they esn't and they feel is most effective. They should have this sorted out by 2037.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles
2004 Rav4 359,000 miles
2015 Camry 59,000 miles
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460] #4484354
08/10/17 07:24 AM
08/10/17 07:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,721
NC
BigD1 Offline
BigD1  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,721
NC
AR-10 done!


1992 Toyota Pickup--Formula Shell 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Leo99] #4484356
08/10/17 07:25 AM
08/10/17 07:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline OP
billt460  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I read something I couldn't believe but appears to be true. There is something like a ratio of 50,000 shots fired per each enemy combatant killed. not counting snipers.


That argument actually supports this decision. When the military went to the .223 in the M-16, it was the birth of the, "spray and pray" tactics learned in the jungles of Vietnam. Marksmanship became less important than, "volume of fire". Which basically translated into more ammo being pumped into the dirt and surrounding hillsides. This was supported by the .223, because it allowed soldiers to carry more ammunition, due to the fact the .223 round was smaller and lighter than the .308, M-14 round. It was also more controllable under full auto fire. That didn't seem to matter because the rounds fired to kill ratio went off the chart. Carrying a lot of ammo accounts for little when you can't hit anything with it. Also the rapid fire Vulcan Mini Guns did nothing to help manage those numbers either.

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