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#4484289 - 08/10/17 06:03 AM Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4391
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
It looks as if they are finally realizing that going to war with a high powered .22 varmint rifle is becoming a lesson in futility.

"The ultimate objective of the program is to acquire and field a 7.62mm ICSR that will increase Soldier lethality."

http://www.guns.com/2017/08/07/army-looking-for-up-to-50000-new-select-fire-7-62mm-service-rifles/

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#4484304 - 08/10/17 06:33 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
zrxkawboy Offline


Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 1761
Loc: SD
Why does someone always have to bring up politics?
_________________________
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#4484315 - 08/10/17 06:41 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
The "infighting" with this issue must consume wicked amounts of tax dollars while they duke it out...

It keeps coming up over and over and over and over...

The truth is, most "special teams" can order whatever they want.
and always, always, always pick the weapons off your dead enemies.
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#4484316 - 08/10/17 06:42 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1735
Loc: Rochester, NY
What happened to 6.8 SPC?
_________________________
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#4484317 - 08/10/17 06:42 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
DdDd Offline


Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 189
Loc: NY
It's called a joke. There is absolutely nothing political about my comments.

Why does somebody always have to claim politics to lock a thread. Are people that touchy about their chosen ideology? In case you haven't noticed DC is quite amusing.

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#4484333 - 08/10/17 06:56 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: DdDd]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39858
Loc: 'Stralia
By always, I guess that you are stating that you aren't that much of a newbie, but have been previously banned.

Do the mods a favour, and state outright which banned account you were, so hopefully Bill's thread keeps motoring.

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#4484335 - 08/10/17 06:59 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
Vern_in_IL Offline


Registered: 06/25/14
Posts: 1884
Loc: IL
This means a 50% rise in ammo prices? Whatever they find they going to take it off the consumer market.
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#4484336 - 08/10/17 07:04 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: NateDN10]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4391
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
What happened to 6.8 SPC?


It's not a NATO cartridge. The military always looks for standardization with it's NATO allies. It's the main reason we dropped the .45 ACP in favor of the 9 MM back in 1985. While the 6.8 SPC can be considered a ballistically effective cartridge, it is an oddball. The 7.62 X 51 MM, (.308), has been around forever. And the military already has tons of ammunition stockpiled in that caliber. And it offers a huge ballistic improvement over the .22. So it isn't surprising that's the cartridge they want to run with.

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#4484337 - 08/10/17 07:04 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
Claud Offline


Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 593
Loc: Margate England
No good coming up with a great gun without great soldiers properly trained in its use.

Claud.

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#4484342 - 08/10/17 07:10 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Claud]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8536
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Claud
No good coming up with a great gun without great soldiers properly trained in its use.

Claud.


We do have those great soldiers.

Are you suggesting otherwise?
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#4484343 - 08/10/17 07:11 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: DdDd]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8536
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: DdDd
It's called a joke. There is absolutely nothing political about my comments.

Why does somebody always have to claim politics to lock a thread. Are people that touchy about their chosen ideology? In case you haven't noticed DC is quite amusing.


It was inherently political.

Are you unable to see that?
_________________________
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#4484345 - 08/10/17 07:14 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Vern_in_IL]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4391
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
This means a 50% rise in ammo prices? Whatever they find they going to take it off the consumer market.


I would say just the opposite. The more the military invests in a cartridge, the cheaper the ammo becomes. Look at .223 / 5.56 MM compared to .222, or .22-250. It can be had for less than half of what the ballistically competitive commercial cartridges go for. Same with the .308 / 7.62-51 MM. Cabela's has it on sale for just $10.99 a box, (20 rounds). Again, compare that to similar size and power commercial calibers. Same deal with 9 MM compared to .38 Special.

The best example is the .50 BMG. You can buy it all day long for $2.50 a round if you shop around. Compare it to any of the Weatherby Magnum, Rigby, or H&H Magnum cartridges. It is many times cheaper per round. While at the same time contains over twice the brass, powder, and lead of the others. And has far more power. Military standardization is the reason why.

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#4484349 - 08/10/17 07:18 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
Leo99 Offline


Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 3041
Loc: NJ
I read something I couldn't believe but appears to be true. There is something like a ratio of 50,000 shots fired per each enemy combatant killed. not counting snipers.

Just a crazy high number. Does it really matter that much about ballistics?

Them bigger bullets weigh more and not all soldiers want to lug around the heavier rifle and ammo.

Regardless, let the military decide what they esn't and they feel is most effective. They should have this sorted out by 2037.
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Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

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#4484354 - 08/10/17 07:24 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: billt460]
BigD1 Offline


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 2575
Loc: NC
AR-10 done!
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#4484356 - 08/10/17 07:25 AM Re: Military Is Looking For 50,000 New .30 Rifles [Re: Leo99]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4391
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I read something I couldn't believe but appears to be true. There is something like a ratio of 50,000 shots fired per each enemy combatant killed. not counting snipers.


That argument actually supports this decision. When the military went to the .223 in the M-16, it was the birth of the, "spray and pray" tactics learned in the jungles of Vietnam. Marksmanship became less important than, "volume of fire". Which basically translated into more ammo being pumped into the dirt and surrounding hillsides. This was supported by the .223, because it allowed soldiers to carry more ammunition, due to the fact the .223 round was smaller and lighter than the .308, M-14 round. It was also more controllable under full auto fire. That didn't seem to matter because the rounds fired to kill ratio went off the chart. Carrying a lot of ammo accounts for little when you can't hit anything with it. Also the rapid fire Vulcan Mini Guns did nothing to help manage those numbers either.

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