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Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison #4484211
08/09/17 11:41 PM
08/09/17 11:41 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
SubieRubyRoo  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
So we had a mechanism fail at work yesterday (glass container manufacturing) and when it was disassembled, there was like a black sludge in it. This mechanism is exposed to consistent 350-400*F temps, possible glass and glass batch mixture contaminants, and 24/7/365 operation. It gets 15 minute oiling thru a central lube system, and as is typical of all things German, it has a spec oil- in this case Klubersynth HM2-220. As with all things German, we pay a hefty premium for this oil compared to other alternatives, and the VOA shows there is literally nothing other than phosphorus in it! This is my first personal industrial UOA, so I don't know for sure, but the flashpoint doesn't really look that great considering the environmental temps it sees. Just thought I'd share these for grins...


Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4484219
08/10/17 12:03 AM
08/10/17 12:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,260
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,260
Malaysia
What's gear rpm and pitch diameters of input shaft and output shaft gears respectively ?
Plain (failed) bearing diameters ?

Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4484227
08/10/17 12:14 AM
08/10/17 12:14 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
SubieRubyRoo  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
None of the above. This is a steel shaft which makes a 90* rotation about every 6 seconds... moves down about 14 inches, stays 2.5-3 seconds, then back up. Bronze bushing between the shaft and housing. There is a cam-roller in the base that provides a stop at each end and the rate of height change.

Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4484230
08/10/17 12:27 AM
08/10/17 12:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,260
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,260
Malaysia
Huuh..... intermittent oscilating mechanisms, traveling 28 inches per 3 seconds or so.
EP220 appears inadequate, I guess.
Keep bearing clearances at below 0.3mm would help.

Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4484321
08/10/17 06:45 AM
08/10/17 06:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
It gets 15 minute oiling thru a central lube system,


Is this interval adequate?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4487196
08/13/17 10:26 AM
08/13/17 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 266
Upper midwest
Mainia Offline
Mainia  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 266
Upper midwest
Call Summit Industrial Oil (A Kluber Company) in Texas and talk to Thomas Knight, he is the R&D chemist. Just because they spec that oil doesn't mean there are 1 to 2 tier up better oil for this application. From what I checked out on your oil it is a PAO/Ester Blend. See if there is a full Ester oil that would work. You may have to kidney loop with a 2000 Beta Donaldson filter.

Also see what a full Ester base does that a PAO/Easter cant do here. Both Summit/Kluber oil, but in a different application I had.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4487172/A_fix_for_our_Atlas_Copco_varn

.

Re: Machinery Failure UOA / VOA comparison [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4493974
08/20/17 08:00 PM
08/20/17 08:00 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
SubieRubyRoo  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,349
Winchester, Indiana
Mainia, there is no way to filter this oil, it is an 'open loop' application. The oil goes into the mechanisms, and at some point oozes out, runs down the machine into the basement, and is collected into the skimmer pond that cleans the recirc water.

It sounds like because of the cost ($40/gal) we are going to go to a Chevron lube at $7/gal and bump up the oiling frequency and volume to 'flush' the contaminants from the system vs. using the Kluber.


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