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Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy #4482633
08/08/17 10:35 AM
08/08/17 10:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,731
Buffalo, NY
Nickdfresh Online content OP
Nickdfresh  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,731
Buffalo, NY
Mazda announces breakthrough in long-coveted engine technology

Reuters LINK

Sam Nussey and Maki Shiraki
4 hrs ago

Mazda Motor Corp said it would become the world's first automaker to commercialize a much more efficient petrol engine using technology that deep-pocketed rivals have been trying to engineer for decades, a twist in an industry increasingly going electric.
Research

The new compression ignition engine is 20 percent to 30 percent more fuel efficient than the Japanese automaker's current engines and uses a technology that has eluded the likes of Daimler AG and General Motors Co.

Mazda, with a research and development (R&D) budget a fraction of those of major peers, said it plans to sell cars with the new engine from 2019.

"It's a major breakthrough," said Ryoji Miyashita, chairman of automotive engineering company AEMSS Inc.

The announcement places traditional engines at the centre of Mazda's strategy and comes just days after Mazda said it will work with Toyota Motor Corp to develop electric vehicles and build a $1.6 billion U.S. assembly plant.

"We think it is an imperative and fundamental job for us to pursue the ideal internal combustion engine," Mazda R&D head Kiyoshi Fujiwara told reporters. "Electrification is necessary but... the internal combustion engine should come first."
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A homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI) engine ignites petrol through compression, eliminating spark plugs. Its fuel economy potentially matches that of a diesel engine without high emissions of nitrogen oxides or sooty particulates.

Mazda's engine employs spark plugs under certain conditions, such as at low temperatures, to overcome technical hurdles that have hampered commercialisation of the technology.

Executive Vice President Akira Marumoto called Mazda's engine technology the automaker's "heart".

The engine is called SKYACTIV-X and Mazda had no plans to supply the engine to other carmakers, Marumoto said.

AEMSS' Miyashita said a key issue would be how smooth and responsive the engine is.

"Is it jerky? If so, that would pose a big question when it comes to commercialising this technology." he said. "Hopefully Mazda has an answer to that question."

Mazda also said it would introduce electric vehicles and electric technology in its cars from 2019, focusing on markets that restrict the sale of certain vehicles to limit air pollution or that provide clean sources of electricity.

In addition, it said it aimed to make autonomous-driving technology standard in all of its models by 2025.

Mazda's announced its petrol-engine technology breakthrough on the same day that shares in Japan's GS Yuasa Corp surged after a newspaper reported that it would start producing a lithium battery that would duoble the range of electric cars as early as 2020.

Mazda's share price closed down 1.3 percent. That compared with a 0.3 percent fall in the benchmark Nikkei 225 index .

(Reporting by Sam Nussey and Maki Shiraki; Additional reporting by Norihiko Shirouzu; Editing by Chang-Ran Kim, Christopher Cushing and Neil Fullick)

Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482647
08/08/17 10:53 AM
08/08/17 10:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,035
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,035
Canuck living in California
We will have to wait and see what Mazda comes up with in 2019.
Their current Skyactiv engines. with 14:1 compression, were probably a major stepping stone in controlling the combustion, so this might be quite a possibility.
Engine characteristics will also play a major role. It's one thing to build a gas engine that doesn't need spark plugs, it's another to build one with good characteristics that the driving public is used to.


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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: KrisZ] #4482662
08/08/17 11:03 AM
08/08/17 11:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,731
Buffalo, NY
Nickdfresh Online content OP
Nickdfresh  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,731
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
We will have to wait and see what Mazda comes up with in 2019.
Their current Skyactiv engines. with 14:1 compression, were probably a major stepping stone in controlling the combustion, so this might be quite a possibility.
Engine characteristics will also play a major role. It's one thing to build a gas engine that doesn't need spark plugs, it's another to build one with good characteristics that the driving public is used to.


Agreed, it's the biggest hurdle they probably face, but I suspect they have done the ground work to minimize the difference between conventional gasoline engines and maybe to manage expectations. But we'll see.

It will also be interesting to see in what way the HCCI engine will impact lubricants and what their specs will be (i.e. thicker or thinner?)...

Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482671
08/08/17 11:13 AM
08/08/17 11:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
JeepWJ19 Offline
JeepWJ19  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
What a time to be alive (seriously)


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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482680
08/08/17 11:23 AM
08/08/17 11:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,929
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,929
Florida, Cape Coral
I love my SkyActiv power train but, Mazda still struggles with their low compression Diesel in some markets. I reserve my clapping until this new engine gets to our market. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482707
08/08/17 11:52 AM
08/08/17 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,181
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,181
Waco, TX
If they did a hybrid like the Prius,
the engine could run at one (optimized) engine RPM.

If Mazda and Toyota are actually working with each other in some areas,
and if this engine is a success -
expect to see it in the 2020-2021 Prius.


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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: KrisZ] #4482753
08/08/17 12:39 PM
08/08/17 12:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
09_GXP Offline
09_GXP  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Engine characteristics will also play a major role. It's one thing to build a gas engine that doesn't need spark plugs, it's another to build one with good characteristics that the driving public is used to.


They will still use spark plugs under certain conditions to ensure a good driving experience. To Mazda the driving experience is everything and they will work the rest of the car to suit, within regulations.


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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Linctex] #4482762
08/08/17 12:49 PM
08/08/17 12:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,135
Austin, Texas
Brons2 Offline
Brons2  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,135
Austin, Texas
Originally Posted By: Linctex
If they did a hybrid like the Prius,
the engine could run at one (optimized) engine RPM.


Interesting idea, although, I think this would need to be used in a hybrid where the motive power almost always came from the electric motor, like the Volt, to enable single speed HCCI operation.

[edit] or operation within HCCI RPM range which from looking at prior studies was in the range of 2000-3500 RPM...

Last edited by Brons2; 08/08/17 12:51 PM.

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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482864
08/08/17 02:55 PM
08/08/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,991
Onondaga County
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,991
Onondaga County
Hasn't HCCI been "just around the corner" for Mazda for nearly 10 years?


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Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482938
08/08/17 04:49 PM
08/08/17 04:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,533
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
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Posts: 6,533
...
I don't know about ten years but ever since the early days of the SkyActiv initiative.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482940
08/08/17 04:51 PM
08/08/17 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,693
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,693
Jupiter, Florida
The current and upcoming Toyota hybrid engines are 40 and 41% thermally efficient, the new ones over a very wide area of output. The best automotive TDI engines are 43% thermally efficient. The Skyactive-G engines are said to peak at 40% TE.

I have to wonder what the Skyactive-X engine's TE is. Mazda's conventional engines are 35% TE.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482942
08/08/17 04:52 PM
08/08/17 04:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
But can they burn diesel in a gas engine???
hide hornets

Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: AirgunSavant] #4482946
08/08/17 04:57 PM
08/08/17 04:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,533
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,533
...
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
But can they burn diesel in a gas engine???
hide hornets



Didn't GovMo try that many years ago? Converting gasoline engine blocks into Diesel engines. It was a mess.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: PimTac] #4482948
08/08/17 04:59 PM
08/08/17 04:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
But can they burn diesel in a gas engine???
hide hornets



Didn't GovMo try that many years ago? Converting gasoline engine blocks into Diesel engines. It was a mess.



Yes they did...lol

Re: Mazda can make a Gas Engine with Diesel Economy [Re: Nickdfresh] #4482952
08/08/17 05:03 PM
08/08/17 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 771
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 771
missouri
They do not burn diesel. If the can continue to control the HCCI mode as the engine ages, carbon builds up, and neglect by the owners. A lot of you do not remember the Chrysler "lean Burn" engines. They were great for 30 to 50K miles. Then they needed disassembled, new timing chain, heads disassembled and cleaned, and often remove the pistons and clean, along with new rings. Then good for another 35 to 50 K miles. A BIG Dodge would get 25 to 27 MPG as long as it worked. But they never saved enough gas to pay for the periodic engine freshen up. I could buy one, fix it, flip it and break even after driving it for a few months.

Rod

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