DODGE power steering fluid CONFUSION

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My manual says ATF+4 (I was thinking of using maxlife but all my walmart has is SuperTech ATF+4) for my recently aquired 2005 Ram 1500 with about 100k miles.

Dodge dealer says that has been superceeded by a special Mopar PS fluid with specific aditives for Dodge PS units. Re-engineered basically in retrospect their Ps fluid.

What do you all think? Is the SuperTech ATF+4 good enough and has good additives or is the Mopar a must to prevent leaks starting from the cleaning effects of fresh fluid in there?
 
The store brand ATF+4 will be just fine. Remember, it does carry official approval from Chrysler as a licensed ATF+4
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In fact, everything on Chrysler's official ATF+4 approved list is the same, since they require a specific group III base oil and a special Lubrizol add pack. So any licensed ATF+4 will work as intended, from cheap Walmart brand all the way to dealer ATF+4 (which is actually made by Valvoline AFAIK)

However, the absolute best ATF+4 to use, if you can afford it, is Red Line C+. Even though it's not licensed, it is a great product and better than what Chrysler will approve. Red Line C+ uses the same add pack as licensed ATF+4 but with a group V ester base stock, making it ineligible for official ATF+4 approval.
 
I can't see you having any air issues. How hard is it to remove the return line? If it's too much of a pain, do a few drain and fills while cycling the wheel a few times in between.
 
My 2012 Ram OM specs either Mopar Power Steering Fluid PSF+4 OR Mopar ATF+4 for the power steering. I'm currently running Havoline ATF+4 in both the power steering & transmission with no problems. I have some Super Tech ATF+4 in my stash as well, it's licensed so no worries. I used the turkey baster method on my power steering.

Although I can afford Redline C+, I use ATF+4 as I'm able to find licensed fluid for about $4 / qt. or less and I'm too skeptical to run any automatic transmission 100,000 miles or more between fluid changes. Since I change my truck's transmission fluid every 32,000 miles or so I personally don't see a great advantage for me to use C+. Licensed ATF+4 has performed well for me in ambient temperatures ranging from -19°F to 105°F.
 
Forgive me for dissenting, but you don't even need ATF+4 ... or ATF at all apparently. Dodge isn't going to recommend Dexron or anything else as a LV PS fluid, they're going to recommend their own ATF spec just because it's their own. (Tip: ATFs have much more in common than they don't)
Most of the additives in ATF, let alone the ones in ATF+4 are useless at best in a simple hydraulic system. Don't take this as advice, it's not, but just something to consider after you pour the ATF+4 in.
 
ATF+4 isn't a LV ATF BTW

I like a common fluid for transmission & power steering so I don't have a partial bottle of PSF sitting around my garage for long periods.
 
Yes sir, that's why I said LV PS fluid
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All ATFs are essentially high-VI, 'Low Vis' working fluids in a power steering system. IIRC this is why some systems call for ATF in the PS system for improved sub-zero performance. Now, synthetic PS fluids are quite common so ATF is no longer the only game in town for high VI performance.
 
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Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Yes sir, that's why I said LV PS fluid
wink.gif

All ATFs are essentially high-VI, 'Low Vis' working fluids in a power steering system. IIRC this is why some systems call for ATF in the PS system for improved sub-zero performance. Now, synthetic PS fluids are quite common so ATF is no longer the only game in town for high VI performance.


Assuming the transmission takes ATF+4, I would like the convenience of only needing 1 type of fluid. I see your point though.

My best example is the New Progress/ New Venture transfer cases found on Chrysler and GM 4x4's that take either DexIII or ATF+4. Makes one wonder if either or could be used issue free assuming all the seals are functioning. On a side note, I wonder if the Mopar and GM fluids for the "AWD" transfer cases are interchangeable? Hmmm.
 
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Yes sir, that's why I said LV PS fluid
wink.gif

All ATFs are essentially high-VI, 'Low Vis' working fluids in a power steering system. IIRC this is why some systems call for ATF in the PS system for improved sub-zero performance. Now, synthetic PS fluids are quite common so ATF is no longer the only game in town for high VI performance.


Hmmm . . . I've never seen Mopar PSF+4 advertised or listed as a LV PSF, although this is the OEM alternative (and assumed Mopar PSF factory fill) in systems that can alternately use ATF+4 as PSF. Your classifications of LV PSF appear to be unique as it doesn't appear as either a design nor marketing description. Same applies to Ford systems that spec Mercon V for PSF.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I'm not sure what you're asking.


I think he's asking about this line of discussion.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4135625/Searchpage/2/Main/255351/Words/case/Search/true/Re:_BW-44-44_Transfer_Case_spe#Post4135625

Amsoil now lists one of their ATF offerings as an acceptable alternative to BW 44-44 Mopar fluid.

I have never been able to find confirmation to my satisfaction the OEM fluid or factory fill is mineral based Dexron III. I ordered some Mopar BW 44-44 fluid on Ebay from a dealership for $22 / qt. delivered to my door.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nyogtha

Hmmm . . . I've never seen Mopar PSF+4 advertised or listed as a LV PSF


I should never have typed "LV" as a shorthand for low viscosity because of how easily it's confused with the marketing application of the letters LV (as in Mercon LV).

All ATF, even DexronIII, is IMO a low viscosity hydraulic fluid with a high VI relative to standard hydraulic/PS fluids. You could say I'm calling all ATFs "low viscosity power steering fluid".

As for Chrysler's PS+4, I'd put money on it being simply a high VI synthetic hydraulic fluid, making the ATF recommendation in power steering for cold weather performance obsolete explaining why it's apparently superseded ATF+4 for their power steering.

The "low viscosity" of ATF is relevant in hydraulic systems in very cold climates, relative to standard hydraulic fluids and thus my reference to ATF (regardless of spec) as a 'low viscosity hydraulic fluid'.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I'm not sure what you're asking.


You mentioned that the joint-venture transfer cases call for Mercon V or Dexron III. My question is "Does it really recommend Dexron III?" because that's an obsolete spec that can't be licensed for anymore. Did you mean Dexron VI, or does it really call for the "universal, aftermarket" Dexron III?
 
I haven't seen anything on Mopar PSF+4 superseding Mopar ATF+4 as a power steering fluid. My 2012 OM specifies either of those two fluids as equally acceptable for my vehicle for use in the power steering, which is the last MY before Ram changed to electric power steering. So can you elaborate further on this?

Also help me understand what LV stands for in Motorcraft Mercon LV ATF, Kendall Versatrans LV ATF, Pennzoil Platinum Multivehicle LV ATF, etc. if it's not shorthand for Low Viscosity with reference to prior generation ATF's? I see it more as a design designation for differentiation than a marketing term.
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
So can you elaborate further on this?


No. I can't.
The dual recommendation circumstantially appeared to be a supersession of the ATF+4 recommendation and that was my assumption.
Perhaps you can elaborate on why both fluids overlap in your vehicle literature, to shut me up.

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Also help me understand what LV stands for in Motorcraft Mercon LV ATF, Kendall Versatrans LV ATF, Pennzoil Platinum Multivehicle LV ATF, etc. if it's not shorthand for Low Viscosity with reference to prior generation ATF's? I see it more as a design designation for differentiation than a marketing term.

It stands for Las Vegas. Viva Las Vegas!
Really though, we all know, and it's no secret, that newer ATF specs have trended to lower viscosities. That's all irrelevant to the discussion, however. In this thread, not once have I been comparing the viscosities of one generation ATF to another generation of ATF. This thread is about Power Steering fluids and my contention is that all ATFs, regardless of ATF specification, are low viscosity power steering fluids. That's a distinction that I'm personally making. Look out for the words "relative" and "relatively" to determine what the comparison is being made between.

Why should I think so? Simply because PS fluids typically have a kinematic viscosity around 7.5cSt@100C not unlike older ATFs, but with a narrower VI relative to ATFs. That means that ATF does not thicken as badly as PS fluid (and indeed hydraulic fluids, generally) in extreme cold weather. Again, not a secret. People have been selecting ATF instead PS fluid in some PS applications for this reason for decades. This is why I refer to ATF as a "low viscosity power steering fluid", because when it's used in a power steering application, or any other basic hydraulic application, it will remain a lower viscosity in the cold. Despite calling it that, ATF is not a power steering fluid at all IMO, but it serves the purpose of a high VI, low viscosity PS fluid. ATF is optimized for Automatic Transmissions and PSF is optimized for power steering systems. That's just kind of a fact that you are more than welcome to challenge.

Again, I apologize for short-handing "low viscosity" to "LV" because of the confusion and exploitability that a lack of explicity invites. It's also really annoying to have to craft posts like legal documents that can stand up in a court of law when you're just trying to share thoughts.

PS - "LV" is certainly marketing; or rather a 'proprietary' terminology I should say, since it's been selected as a proper name for a given trademarked specification. (and I can't even be sure the proper name of the specification has been trademarked, so I could be wrong about that) Point: when a technical documentation needs to refer to low viscosity, it's usually represented as "low viscosity", not "LV".
 
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My 2011 1500 and my 2017 3500 spec the PS+4 (what ever it is called) or ATF+4. They require nothing special. Mine got swapped out for Amsoil multi ATF early on to save on the low temp squeal. Our PS systems do not require some sort of unicorn based fluid with special additives for our special PS systems.
 
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