Recent Topics
Roller Bearing Setup For Dillon Shellplate
by billt460
06/23/18 05:59 AM
Omnia - the band
by Shannow
06/23/18 02:58 AM
Guest's devices cannot connect to my WiFi
by boulderdentist
06/23/18 12:54 AM
Battery stuck in flashlight.
by Chris142
06/22/18 11:53 PM
Must read for everyone watching their diet
by JLTD
06/22/18 11:28 PM
2014 Mazda5 Valvoline Synpower 0W-20 7500 miles
by PWMDMD
06/22/18 10:54 PM
VOA Ravenol ECS 0W-20
by PWMDMD
06/22/18 10:47 PM
2020 mid-engine Corvette spy vid?!
by AZjeff
06/22/18 10:45 PM
'05 base impala. NO turn signals.FAST blinking.
by Lee4212
06/22/18 10:34 PM
Motul 15w-50, 5 Liter 4 Pack $19.42
by hatt
06/22/18 10:10 PM
High Lead Redline 5W40 thoughts? Ty
by Pajero
06/22/18 09:40 PM
Source of the Mighty Columbia River
by Snagglefoot
06/22/18 09:32 PM
Another thick/thin article to discuss
by JLTD
06/22/18 09:23 PM
Ethylene Glycol Long Life Coolant for KUBOTA
by pburchett
06/22/18 09:11 PM
Mobil 1 5W-30, 6,200 mi, 2017 2.3 EB Explorer
by Whimsey
06/22/18 08:48 PM
Chevron 10w-40, 97 Nissan Maxima, 3000 miles
by OilGeek91
06/22/18 08:36 PM
Old green antifreeze in garage storage is gelling
by JLawrence08648
06/22/18 08:32 PM
VWs at Pick n Pull
by Eric Smith
06/22/18 08:17 PM
Single Data Point: CK-4 destroys the flat tappet
by Gokhan
06/22/18 08:12 PM
Breaking in new short block
by Bub
06/22/18 07:00 PM
Newest Members
azzid0906, OilGeek91, DRancher, Newuser, Varbill
65299 Registered Users
Who's Online
57 registered (4WD, Alex_V, ArrestMeRedZ, 13 invisible), 972 Guests and 68 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65299 Members
67 Forums
285817 Topics
4769976 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4480232 - 08/05/17 08:55 PM 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska??
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
I saw this on TV the other night on where a guy put 20w50 in his small airplane motor. This plane operated north of Fairbanks in the winter time. I found that rather interesting given how cold it gets north of Fairbanks. Do airplane motors operate differently then a regular motor vehicle?? I am thinking a small piston driven prop plane motor would be rather similar to a motor in a car or truck. But I could well be wrong. My other thought was starting that badboy up in -30 to -40C with 20w50 seemed either a) really stupid by the guy putting that in there or b) that motor must somehow operate differently than a vehicle motor. What do you all think??
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

Top
#4480236 - 08/05/17 08:58 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41789
Loc: New Jersey
Im not so sure the temperature on the ground is what matters, rather how cold it is at altitude.

If its an air cooled engine, it may still be fairly warm.

Also, whats to say theres no pre-oiler, heater, etc., etc?

Top
#4480245 - 08/05/17 09:11 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
Old Mustang Guy Offline


Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 967
Loc: Rockwall, Texas
My brother bought a Cessna 172. I went with him to the aviation shop where they do the maintenance. The oil they had stocked was a Phillips 66 aviation oil in 20w50. This of course in Texas.

Top
#4480248 - 08/05/17 09:13 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 14288
Loc: Canada
Plane engines have pre-heaters on them; they are never started stone-cold, AFAIK

The engines are basically the same as car engines, but much bigger and slower-revving. They are usually large flat-6's.
_________________________
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 126k miles.
M1 EP 10W-30; OEM Kia filter.

Top
#4480251 - 08/05/17 09:14 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: JHZR2]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
Well ground temps there do go down well below -30C on a routine basis. Plus short daylight hours in the winter means that motor sits all night long and even with a warming blanket could well lose all of it's heat I would think. But, hey I could be wrong about that too!


Edited by bbhero (08/05/17 09:14 PM)
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

Top
#4480258 - 08/05/17 09:22 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: addyguy]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
Thanks addyguy. That makes sense to me. This is a very, very light bush plane. I am thinking that it has the warmer that you mentioned in your msg.
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

Top
#4480272 - 08/05/17 09:30 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California

Top
#4480309 - 08/05/17 10:31 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
AeroShell Semi-Synthetic 15W-50 is what I use in 80% of aircraft engine oil changes I do.

The other 20% is AeroShell 100 (50) A.D. oil.


I haven't ordered any Phillips/66 Trop-Arctic 20W-50 in a while, but I still have a couple bottles around. I used to use it in my Harley-Davidson Shovelhead.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4480328 - 08/05/17 10:55 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
20w50 IS used in AK. It's drained every night and kept inside to keep it warm. It would be a solid lump at -40 otherwise....
_________________________
Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete

Top
#4480331 - 08/05/17 11:03 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5519
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Aircraft engines have somewhat looser clearances than modern automotive engines. They are more akin to air cooled motorcycle engines than to water cooled cars and trucks. Many, many are simple flat fours, twin magnetos and carburetors. Bigger and slicker planes get six's. Really slick planes get fuel injection.

A little plane like a PIPER CUB or a SUPER CUB will not have a pre-heater. May not even have a starter. May have to start it by pulling the prop through laugh

The idea that 20W or 15W is thick is a BITOG thing. 20W and 15W are good to well below zero. The motor will fire and run fine. By the time you have completed ground check, and taxied to the runway, the engine is warm. It's also on full rich and manifold heat is on (warming intake charge off exhaust) so that the motor is ready to go full power.

Once airborne, you can lean it out manually, drop manifold heat and get the EGT (exhaust gas temp) you want with RPM and mixture controls.

The reason they turn slower than car engines is that the props are running at crankshaft speed and you don't want to over-speed the prop. It looses efficiency and gets very noisy. Four and five foot long two-blade props don't need a lot of RPM to have the tips exceed the sound barrier, and then they are not making any thrust ...

All airplanes are about airfoil efficiency (wing and prop). That's how they fly. They use larger displacements to make the torque to turn the prop at the required speed to maximize thrust. Cubic inches is your friend, RPM's are not. Reduction boxes that allow engines to rev are added weight. Cubic inches does not cost much weight. It's the better trade off smile


Edited by BrocLuno (08/05/17 11:07 PM)
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

Top
#4480357 - 08/05/17 11:44 PM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: BrocLuno]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
... The reason they turn slower than car engines is that the props are running at crankshaft speed and you don't want to over-speed the prop.
... They use larger displacements to make the torque to turn the prop at the required speed to maximize thrust. Cubic inches is your friend, RPM's are not. Reduction boxes that allow engines to rev are added weight. Cubic inches does not cost much weight. It's the better trade off.
Interesting! Many years ago I saw an article considering the feasibility of running the prop off the engine camshaft to allow smaller aircraft engines to develop adequate power and torque. Of course that would require stronger cam drives and bearings, but it seemed plausible that that might be a good compromise. I take it that the idea never worked out?
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius now at 88K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

Top
#4480388 - 08/06/17 01:53 AM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: CR94]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CR94
Interesting! Many years ago I saw an article considering the feasibility of running the prop off the engine camshaft to allow smaller aircraft engines to develop adequate power and torque. Of course that would require stronger cam drives and bearings, but it seemed plausible that that might be a good compromise. I take it that the idea never worked out?


Already tried that!

Continental aircraft engines (CAE) tried this with the "Tiara" engines.

GREAT concept, but find one flying today.

I can remember seeing those engine gathering dust and cobwebs in the back of old hangars ALL OVER in the 80's and 90's.

I'll bet I could still go find some that haven't moved!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Tiara_series
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4480391 - 08/06/17 01:54 AM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: CR94]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CR94
Interesting! Many years ago I saw an article considering the feasibility of running the prop off the engine camshaft ....


Ask, and you shall receive:

_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4480413 - 08/06/17 03:43 AM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24600
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
If you go to the local flying club on the cold days, and someone is planning to go up, you can see some engines bundled up very tightly. wink Inside storage is prohibitively expensive.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4480419 - 08/06/17 03:57 AM Re: 20w50 north of Fairbanks Alaska?? [Re: bbhero]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: 'Stralia

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >