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Ice Battery A/C Efficiency #4479317
08/04/17 07:25 PM
08/04/17 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
With all the HVAC threads, though that I'd add another.

I'm moving in just under a month, and thus am back in the realms of having a mortgage, so with the opportunity of having someone else's money to spend, and having a pact with my wife that this is the house that we retire into (15 yearsish), we have been considering all things.

Electricity is currently 30c+/KWh, and with energy trends in Australia clearly isn't going to get cheaper. Off peak is around 10c, but clearly going to rise as the peak gets iunverted.

Solar is on probably 1:10 roofs in the district, and you get around 8c feed in tarriff, but we are a working family, and so would be generating the best while at work, and sucking it the hardest in the hours coming home from work.

My employer sells Tesla Power Wall 2, and another Aussie system "Redback", which combines batteries and time of use controllers...e.g. at the point that you are about to start exporting, it can switch on a hot water service for example, or a washing machine/clothes drier.

In my machinations, I've come across this...
https://www.ice-energy.com/



If you have access to off peak/solar, you freeze the "ice battery", then use the stored cold when you need to, either through direct access, or as the cold sink for an existing A/C system.

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479392
08/04/17 08:33 PM
08/04/17 08:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
laserred96gt Offline
laserred96gt  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
I wonder how the refrigerant flows if there's no compressor


2017 4Runner Limited, 44k
04 E-150, 4.6, 231K, Synblend 5w20.
11 Camry 2.5, 63K, PU 5w20.
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479396
08/04/17 08:35 PM
08/04/17 08:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
laserred96gt Offline
laserred96gt  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
I guess he did mention a small efficient pump.


2017 4Runner Limited, 44k
04 E-150, 4.6, 231K, Synblend 5w20.
11 Camry 2.5, 63K, PU 5w20.
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479407
08/04/17 08:45 PM
08/04/17 08:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Because it's a storage system, the freeze cycle can be slow and steady, not needing to peak like the home A/C needs to be when you get home.

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479412
08/04/17 08:56 PM
08/04/17 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
turtlevette Offline
turtlevette  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
What about a natural gas powered ac compressor. Or is natural gas super high cost too?

What do you heat with?


USA-1
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479420
08/04/17 09:16 PM
08/04/17 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Turtlevette,

gas appliances (other than heaters, stoves and hot water) aren't all that common down here...that being said, the recent gas price hikes (4.30 to $10+/GJwholesale) have made natural gas more expensive than diesel or unleaded on a price per unit energy basis.

New place we are looking at augmenting gas with wood.

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479468
08/04/17 11:09 PM
08/04/17 11:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,515
'Stralia
I've never lived in a house with A/C, so it's probably not something that we will get with Oz having the world's worst power prices...unless I can Jerry Rig a set-up with a couple of old chest freezers, copper pipe, and a tractor radiator and some panels.

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479473
08/04/17 11:20 PM
08/04/17 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Is the water that turns into ice treated with anything? I was always under the impression that water itself is rather corrosive so it needs additives in a closed loop pumped system, but what additives would permit the water to still turn into ice?



And turtlevette - here's something to watch..


Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479476
08/04/17 11:28 PM
08/04/17 11:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Anyone know what an "Ice Bear" might cost?

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Reddy45] #4479478
08/04/17 11:37 PM
08/04/17 11:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

And turtlevette - here's something to watch..


It's an absorption unit, just like RV's refrigerators are.

I've always wanted to build a wood-fired one!!!!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: OneEyeJack] #4479583
08/05/17 05:41 AM
08/05/17 05:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
laserred96gt Offline
laserred96gt  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 945
Florida
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Anyone know what an "Ice Bear" might cost?

Probably a lot more than you'd save during the life of the unit. It may be worth in commercial AC like the video said but not in residential. They have been trying to come up with inventions over the years to reduce the AC power bill whether it's solar, heat recovery units etc and nothing has really worked.
I think going with a base simple unit is the best choice period.


2017 4Runner Limited, 44k
04 E-150, 4.6, 231K, Synblend 5w20.
11 Camry 2.5, 63K, PU 5w20.
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479628
08/05/17 06:46 AM
08/05/17 06:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,009
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,009
Canuck living in California
Neat idea, but for residential use, all I see is two systems to worry about instead of one.
If your previous house never had AC, than I would not spend time worrying about AC costs, because you can always limit how much you use.

Another trick I often do, since we also have off peak rates, is to cool down the house at night to about 70F and raise the temp for the day to about 80. Everybody has a better sleep in a cool house and the AC doesn't kick in until around noon to maintain 80 during the day.

Also, IMO, the money is much better spent on the best house insulation and windows, rather than chasing those high efficiency units.

Another also, one of the, or perhaps the most green solution, provided you have the property for it, is to have trees around your house/property providing constant shade.

Last edited by KrisZ; 08/05/17 06:53 AM.

2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479651
08/05/17 07:14 AM
08/05/17 07:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 763
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 763
missouri
IMHO your money would be better spent on superinsulated house. You can set the ac down at night, better for sleeping, then switch off while at work. Your solar can power the hot water and you can wash a load of clothes. If you are well insulated the temp will increase very little. When you get home your house will still be cool. Then you can let it rise during the high power. Clothes can be dried during the night.

There are split ductless systems with very high efficiency, that would be a good choice for you. This way you only spot cool the rooms you are in.

Rod

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479789
08/05/17 09:55 AM
08/05/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
I guess that if there was some simple thing one could do to reduce the running cost it would be in the next residential unit because it would really help sales. Why wouldn't a manufacturer put something in the system that would reduce running costs 26%? Given two equal systems which one would you purchase?

Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow] #4479844
08/05/17 10:44 AM
08/05/17 10:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline
sleddriver  Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
I was going to weigh in, then realized more information is needed. You don't have A/C now and the new house won't have it either, correct? Not at all familiar with your climate. Thus anything I add is just shooting in the dark.


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
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