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#4479317 - 08/04/17 08:25 PM Ice Battery A/C Efficiency
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39856
Loc: 'Stralia
With all the HVAC threads, though that I'd add another.

I'm moving in just under a month, and thus am back in the realms of having a mortgage, so with the opportunity of having someone else's money to spend, and having a pact with my wife that this is the house that we retire into (15 yearsish), we have been considering all things.

Electricity is currently 30c+/KWh, and with energy trends in Australia clearly isn't going to get cheaper. Off peak is around 10c, but clearly going to rise as the peak gets iunverted.

Solar is on probably 1:10 roofs in the district, and you get around 8c feed in tarriff, but we are a working family, and so would be generating the best while at work, and sucking it the hardest in the hours coming home from work.

My employer sells Tesla Power Wall 2, and another Aussie system "Redback", which combines batteries and time of use controllers...e.g. at the point that you are about to start exporting, it can switch on a hot water service for example, or a washing machine/clothes drier.

In my machinations, I've come across this...
https://www.ice-energy.com/



If you have access to off peak/solar, you freeze the "ice battery", then use the stored cold when you need to, either through direct access, or as the cold sink for an existing A/C system.

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#4479392 - 08/04/17 09:33 PM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
laserred96gt Offline


Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 889
Loc: Florida
I wonder how the refrigerant flows if there's no compressor
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#4479396 - 08/04/17 09:35 PM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
laserred96gt Offline


Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 889
Loc: Florida
I guess he did mention a small efficient pump.
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#4479407 - 08/04/17 09:45 PM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39856
Loc: 'Stralia
Because it's a storage system, the freeze cycle can be slow and steady, not needing to peak like the home A/C needs to be when you get home.

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#4479412 - 08/04/17 09:56 PM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3560
Loc: Massachusetts
What about a natural gas powered ac compressor. Or is natural gas super high cost too?

What do you heat with?
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#4479420 - 08/04/17 10:16 PM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39856
Loc: 'Stralia
Turtlevette,

gas appliances (other than heaters, stoves and hot water) aren't all that common down here...that being said, the recent gas price hikes (4.30 to $10+/GJwholesale) have made natural gas more expensive than diesel or unleaded on a price per unit energy basis.

New place we are looking at augmenting gas with wood.

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#4479468 - 08/05/17 12:09 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39856
Loc: 'Stralia
I've never lived in a house with A/C, so it's probably not something that we will get with Oz having the world's worst power prices...unless I can Jerry Rig a set-up with a couple of old chest freezers, copper pipe, and a tractor radiator and some panels.

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#4479473 - 08/05/17 12:20 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2967
Loc: USA
Is the water that turns into ice treated with anything? I was always under the impression that water itself is rather corrosive so it needs additives in a closed loop pumped system, but what additives would permit the water to still turn into ice?



And turtlevette - here's something to watch..


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#4479476 - 08/05/17 12:28 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
Anyone know what an "Ice Bear" might cost?

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#4479478 - 08/05/17 12:37 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Reddy45]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

And turtlevette - here's something to watch..


It's an absorption unit, just like RV's refrigerators are.

I've always wanted to build a wood-fired one!!!!!
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#4479583 - 08/05/17 06:41 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: OneEyeJack]
laserred96gt Offline


Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 889
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Anyone know what an "Ice Bear" might cost?

Probably a lot more than you'd save during the life of the unit. It may be worth in commercial AC like the video said but not in residential. They have been trying to come up with inventions over the years to reduce the AC power bill whether it's solar, heat recovery units etc and nothing has really worked.
I think going with a base simple unit is the best choice period.
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#4479628 - 08/05/17 07:46 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7460
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Neat idea, but for residential use, all I see is two systems to worry about instead of one.
If your previous house never had AC, than I would not spend time worrying about AC costs, because you can always limit how much you use.

Another trick I often do, since we also have off peak rates, is to cool down the house at night to about 70F and raise the temp for the day to about 80. Everybody has a better sleep in a cool house and the AC doesn't kick in until around noon to maintain 80 during the day.

Also, IMO, the money is much better spent on the best house insulation and windows, rather than chasing those high efficiency units.

Another also, one of the, or perhaps the most green solution, provided you have the property for it, is to have trees around your house/property providing constant shade.


Edited by KrisZ (08/05/17 07:53 AM)
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#4479651 - 08/05/17 08:14 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
ragtoplvr Offline


Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 528
Loc: missouri
IMHO your money would be better spent on superinsulated house. You can set the ac down at night, better for sleeping, then switch off while at work. Your solar can power the hot water and you can wash a load of clothes. If you are well insulated the temp will increase very little. When you get home your house will still be cool. Then you can let it rise during the high power. Clothes can be dried during the night.

There are split ductless systems with very high efficiency, that would be a good choice for you. This way you only spot cool the rooms you are in.

Rod

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#4479789 - 08/05/17 10:55 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
I guess that if there was some simple thing one could do to reduce the running cost it would be in the next residential unit because it would really help sales. Why wouldn't a manufacturer put something in the system that would reduce running costs 26%? Given two equal systems which one would you purchase?

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#4479844 - 08/05/17 11:44 AM Re: Ice Battery A/C Efficiency [Re: Shannow]
sleddriver Offline


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 4600
Loc: Central Texas
I was going to weigh in, then realized more information is needed. You don't have A/C now and the new house won't have it either, correct? Not at all familiar with your climate. Thus anything I add is just shooting in the dark.
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