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12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper #4478737
08/04/17 04:59 AM
08/04/17 04:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
supercity Offline OP
supercity  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
2012 Journey 3.6L
6 Month 6600km
Severe service


Al 3
Ni 1
Cr <1
Fe 8
Cu 36
Pb <1
Sn 1
Ti <1

Si 17
Na 3
K 1
Mo 86
B 128
Mg 11
Ca 2326
Zn 974
Ph 806
S 4174

Water <0.1%
Fuel <0.1%
Soot 0.5%
KV40 53
KV100 9.0
VI 150
TBN 6.3
PQ <10

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478743
08/04/17 05:12 AM
08/04/17 05:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,988
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,988
NY
They use a copper oil cooler, and in some instances show higher than normal copper readings for years and many thousands of miles. If this is your first UOA for the vehicle keep an eye on it and see if it slowly trends down. It's normal for a Pentastar.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478747
08/04/17 05:22 AM
08/04/17 05:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,590
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,590
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Lead is low so the copper is not from engine bearings. If it has a oil cooler that could be the source, some are pure copper and seemingly leach forever.
Its not a bronze or brass bushing as the tin is low. I am not familiar with this engine but I cant think of any part with a high copper content other than a cooler or some sort of fittings.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: Trav] #4478750
08/04/17 05:25 AM
08/04/17 05:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,988
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,988
NY
Originally Posted By: Trav
Lead is low so the copper is not from engine bearings. If it has a oil cooler that could be the source, some are pure copper and seemingly leach forever.
Its not a bronze or brass bushing as the tin is low. I am not familiar with this engine but I cant think of any part with a high copper content other than a cooler or some sort of fittings.


Remember how high my copper was on the first UOA for the Rubicon? 145, everything else was fine. They shed a lot of copper and for a long time, it comes from the oil cooler.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478754
08/04/17 05:28 AM
08/04/17 05:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,477
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,477
Malaysia
The copper isn't from the bearing, I wouldn't be concerned.

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478767
08/04/17 05:43 AM
08/04/17 05:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
Pentastar engines often give high copper.

Which Oz Magnatec 5W30 did you use ? The semi-synthetic GF-5 "Fuel Saver"' or the full synthetic A3/B4 "Stop Start" ?

That is decent zinc for an SN oil.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478787
08/04/17 06:04 AM
08/04/17 06:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
bigt61 Offline
bigt61  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
Looks OK - how many total KM on the vehicle?


92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478790
08/04/17 06:10 AM
08/04/17 06:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
supercity Offline OP
supercity  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
It's Fuel Saver GF-5.
Yeah the lab commented it could be from the oil cooler. I wasn't sure if it had a copper oil cooler or not.
I'm glad to see healthy TBN. It seems to have done well after 6 months, I think I could try GTX 10w30 next time.

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: bigt61] #4478792
08/04/17 06:11 AM
08/04/17 06:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
supercity Offline OP
supercity  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,171
Australia
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Looks OK - how many total KM on the vehicle?


85000km

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: demarpaint] #4478799
08/04/17 06:38 AM
08/04/17 06:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They use a copper oil cooler, and in some instances show higher than normal copper readings for years and many thousands of miles. If this is your first UOA for the vehicle keep an eye on it and see if it slowly trends down. It's normal for a Pentastar.


Nice! You saved the day:)

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478838
08/04/17 07:37 AM
08/04/17 07:37 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Phos is over ILSAC GF5 limits No Biggie.

Did the OP run a HD oil before this run causing a carryover?

I enjoyed my last run with Magnatec 5w30 GF5 better than anything before or after.

The QSUD aint no slouch either.

Great to find decent oils these days for 20 quid a jug!

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 08/04/17 07:39 AM.

2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478879
08/04/17 08:17 AM
08/04/17 08:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,552
DELAWARE
Hootbro Offline
Hootbro  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,552
DELAWARE
I would not sweat the copper either. My 14 Jeep Wrangler with the Pentastar also puked high copper for quite awhile. 40 ppm was the universal average for it and mine hovered around 30-45 ppm every oil analysis.


2018 RAM 2500 Cummins 6.7L (Delvac 1300 15W-40)
2017 Jeep Renegade 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4478900
08/04/17 09:00 AM
08/04/17 09:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,806
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,806
Texas
Its not just the Pentastar, a lot of engines show high copper these days because oil coolers are more and more common. I remember some of the first vehicles that this showed up on were late Gen-IV GM F-bodies when the LS engine first came out.


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4479055
08/04/17 01:13 PM
08/04/17 01:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
The only other source of copper could be the piston pin bushings, but as already mentioned the corresponding alloyed metals are not showing up in same proportions as the copper.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: 12 Pentastar, Magnatec 5w30 high copper [Re: supercity] #4479169
08/04/17 04:16 PM
08/04/17 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Colorado
newtoncd8 Offline
newtoncd8  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Colorado
Not to alarm the OP, but perhaps my Pentastar may be an exception???

5,000 mile runs on a mix of PP/PYB.



12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500
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