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Lugging even with computer control? #4478685
08/04/17 12:14 AM
08/04/17 12:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline OP
OneEyeJack  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
I've been driving this 2017 Sonata company car. It's a basic 4 cylinder GDI rental model.

My question is when driving in a smooth manner trying to get good fuel mileage you can lug the engine at 1,100 rpm by just gently accelerating. There's no down shift and you can hear and feel the engine lugging. I thought with computer control and a 6-speed automatic transmission this would not happen.

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478688
08/04/17 12:18 AM
08/04/17 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
You'd really need to be seeing what the software is doing REAL TIME on a monitor before coming to any conclusions.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478691
08/04/17 12:25 AM
08/04/17 12:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,883
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,883
Central Washington
Well of course it lugs it. That minimizes rotational losses and maximizes fuel economy. Thats why LSPI is the talked about thing these days; from running these engines hard at a low RPM.
I realize this isnt a turbo car, but they are still going to run it as low as they can get away with.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: Colt45ws] #4478696
08/04/17 01:24 AM
08/04/17 01:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,529
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,529
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Well of course it lugs it. That minimizes rotational losses and maximizes fuel economy. Thats why LSPI is the talked about thing these days; from running these engines hard at a low RPM.
I realize this isnt a turbo car, but they are still going to run it as low as they can get away with.


Same with my baby Duramax Colorado...can even hear knock on light throttle up in town settings.

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478697
08/04/17 01:43 AM
08/04/17 01:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,459
CA
user52165 Offline
user52165  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,459
CA
If it has an ECO button, turn it off.

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478723
08/04/17 04:21 AM
08/04/17 04:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
Are you the only one to drive it? The adaptive transmission might be shifting just right for the last person who drove it, but it will need time to learn your habits.

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478730
08/04/17 04:46 AM
08/04/17 04:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,970
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,970
NY
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I've been driving this 2017 Sonata company car. It's a basic 4 cylinder GDI rental model.

My question is when driving in a smooth manner trying to get good fuel mileage you can lug the engine at 1,100 rpm by just gently accelerating. There's no down shift and you can hear and feel the engine lugging. I thought with computer control and a 6-speed automatic transmission this would not happen.


That was always my complaint with high revving engines that lacked torque, and programming to get max mpgs. Too many gears and not enough power to properly utilize it. I bet its probably in 4th or 5th gear at 1,100 rpm and you have to step on it harder to force it to drop a gear, or two. Try a 9 speed mated to a 4 cylinder and you'll really go nuts. hide

The lugging can't be good for the engine either.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478739
08/04/17 05:03 AM
08/04/17 05:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,196
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,196
Sunny Florida
You poor fellows would probably shriek as my sig car putts around town turning corners and lugging out in 4th gear at 900 rpm.

There is no way this can hurt any modern engine...


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478742
08/04/17 05:09 AM
08/04/17 05:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,016
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,016
Canuck living in California
I highly doubt it's lugging. The RPM is simply much lower than what OP is used to.
Is it noisier, is there more vibration, maybe a little bit of surging? If not, it's nut lugging.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478782
08/04/17 05:59 AM
08/04/17 05:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,338
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,338
Midwest USA
2015 Ford Fusion fleet model company car does same thing when shifter is in normal D position. Putting it in S for sport stops the lugging. But in D it will lug right down to a where you can feel the car start to shudder and will stay there unless you let off or tip in some more throttle to get it to release or downshift.



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478808
08/04/17 06:48 AM
08/04/17 06:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,490
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,490
...
This situation happens more often with a cvt transmission in my experience. They want to keep the engine rpms at a efficient speed.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: Ethan1] #4478836
08/04/17 07:33 AM
08/04/17 07:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,475
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,475
NJ
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Are you the only one to drive it? The adaptive transmission might be shifting just right for the last person who drove it, but it will need time to learn your habits.


I agree with this. When I first got my Camry, it was full of pep and I enjoyed the extra power it had compared to the Corolla I was driving. My driving style calmed down and I noticed the lugging. It got real lazy and was in too high of gear and unresponsive at 1500 rpm. Since driving a little more spirited, the lugging has gone away.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478859
08/04/17 07:54 AM
08/04/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,699
Southeast
meep Online content
meep  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,699
Southeast
I don't mind the low-rpm pull in the wife's crv at all. To truly 'Lug' as one can in a manual, you've also got to be putting in enough throttle input to stress it. In the autos, significant throttle command inspires a downshift. The lower-power lower rpm use, I actually find nice, makes it behave as if it is torquey. maybe it is. As long as the internals are adequately sized, it's just the sensation of vibration to me. I wouldn't worry about it.

good luck,
-m


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: SteveSRT8] #4478874
08/04/17 08:11 AM
08/04/17 08:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,970
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,970
NY
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You poor fellows would probably shriek as my sig car putts around town turning corners and lugging out in 4th gear at 900 rpm.

There is no way this can hurt any modern engine...


Not sure what vehicle you're referring to. If it's the Hemi RAM with the 8 speed ZF, that certainly has the power to properly utilize all those gears.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Lugging even with computer control? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4478962
08/04/17 10:32 AM
08/04/17 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,252
The Garden State
Whimsey Online content
Whimsey  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,252
The Garden State
Our 2017 2.3 Eco Boost Explorer in the 45-50 mph range is running at around 1300-1400 rpm at steady throttle. It doesn't appear to lug and a slight tip in on the throttle will increase the rpm's quickly. I'm used to driving manual transmission 4 cylinder vehicles and it just seems like low rpm's. But since this a computer controlled automatic vs a manual I just have to get use to it smile.

Whimsey

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