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Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements #4475163
07/31/17 01:13 AM
07/31/17 01:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
goodtimes Offline OP
goodtimes  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
This seemed interesting. If hasn't been shown before. I guess these folks bought Frantz.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4475183
07/31/17 03:46 AM
07/31/17 03:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,620
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,620
Taiwan
I particularly liked the two identical images of the featureless grey filter media, which, when magnified, reveal two identical images of the featureless grey filter media.

Really gets the point across.

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4475337
07/31/17 08:59 AM
07/31/17 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,080
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,080
Occupied Virginia
So true. lol

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4475585
07/31/17 01:15 PM
07/31/17 01:15 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,093
Saskatchewan, Canada
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can achieve (because they have to maintain a large volume of oil which means they cannot compromise on flow rates, which means pressure drop is an issue, preventing small media pores from being used).

Where I am not convinced is whether it is necessary at all to obtain good engine wear protection. Motors that can run for 200K with conventional oil filtration suggests anything finer is unnecessary.

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4475774
07/31/17 04:51 PM
07/31/17 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can


It's pretty obvious they do "something" as far as filtration, since as time goes by, they definitely "fail to get warm" in service because oil flow has ceased.

The only reason oil flow can cease is because they've trapped enough crud to stop flowing, I believe.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4475777
07/31/17 04:53 PM
07/31/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


They don't understand the (Proven) business concept:
"Fast nickels are better than slow dimes"


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4476213
08/01/17 06:31 AM
08/01/17 06:31 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can achieve ...

Where I am not convinced is whether it is necessary at all to obtain good engine wear protection. Motors that can run for 200K with conventional oil filtration suggests anything finer is unnecessary.


I could not agree more. A thousand times "Yes".

The overwhelming data in macro analysis tells us that they simply are not needed for the "normal" daily cycles we have with products today. Engines can run hundreds of thousands of miles, and run well, with just conventional oil and a decent filter, if typical OCIs are your mantra. Sure, there are a few examples of poorly made engines or ones with design flaws, but those are rare overall. Most all equipment can run a very productive life-cycle with no need for special equipment add-on's.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: dnewton3] #4476592
08/01/17 02:27 PM
08/01/17 02:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Sure, there are a few examples of poorly made engines or ones with design flaws, but those are rare overall.


LOL, any Porsche engine with an IMS shaft laugh


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4479919
08/05/17 01:11 PM
08/05/17 01:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
goodtimes Offline OP
goodtimes  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
I came pretty close to buying a nice used Ford diesel pickup 96 250HD supercab fully loaded with 71k, they don't rust here. That's what I would have put on it, the Frantz kit. Passed on it thinking about the expenses to keep it up. just to use it occasionally as a pickup truck. They have some nice data on the Frantz site to back up what they claim. If someone wants to toy with complaining about drawings while ignoring the text, that's fine as well. The fact they developed a synthetic media for the Frantz is interesting. They prices may seem high, but most American made, by people who make a living wage, is not cheap. Then there is the development cost which does not come cheap for a business either. I am glad to see the old school name living on.

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4480412
08/06/17 03:43 AM
08/06/17 03:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
xtell Offline
xtell  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


I have been using the Frants filters since the late 1970's. The only parts that I have had to replace are: the O-rings that fit between the upper and lower parts and the hoses to / from the filter. The units I have are comprised of the old style Frants Filters and the new "Oil Refiner" unit. The thing is, the manufacturers of the Frantz Bypass filters have to: buy some of the components such as fittings, hoses, etc / some components have to be cast, the metal part that goes over the filter media has to be made. In addition, its not like they area selling these filters by the thousand every week. I had to go into an auto parts store an buy a little plastic AC Delco vacuum hose connector and it costs me $12. If you cant make it - you have to pay what they are asking. The guy making the Oil Refiner in California is the sole owner and he has people working for him to make / assemble the filters. The units he sells are quality filters. The prices for both kinds of Frants filters are very reasonable, when you pro rate the years of service you can get out of them. Aside from the O-rings and hoses, the units can last a lifetime.

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: xtell] #4481221
08/06/17 08:38 PM
08/06/17 08:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
goodtimes Offline OP
goodtimes  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
Originally Posted By: xtell
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


I have been using the Frants filters since the late 1970's. The only parts that I have had to replace are: the O-rings that fit between the upper and lower parts and the hoses to / from the filter. The units I have are comprised of the old style Frants Filters and the new "Oil Refiner" unit. The thing is, the manufacturers of the Frantz Bypass filters have to: buy some of the components such as fittings, hoses, etc / some components have to be cast, the metal part that goes over the filter media has to be made. In addition, its not like they area selling these filters by the thousand every week. I had to go into an auto parts store an buy a little plastic AC Delco vacuum hose connector and it costs me $12. If you cant make it - you have to pay what they are asking. The guy making the Oil Refiner in California is the sole owner and he has people working for him to make / assemble the filters. The units he sells are quality filters. The prices for both kinds of Frants filters are very reasonable, when you pro rate the years of service you can get out of them. Aside from the O-rings and hoses, the units can last a lifetime.


These guys are in Ohio. Maybe they bought Frantz. I had them on cars back in the day, but the newer cars had no place for one.

Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4481936
08/07/17 03:42 PM
08/07/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 163
Tug Hill, NY
Corelokt Offline
Corelokt  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 163
Tug Hill, NY
Where do you put one on an electric vehicle? And, would it use biodegradable toilet paper?


86 CUCV. 6.5L. Level-3 4L80. NP205. 9-16 14 ply tires, HX35/40 turbo. WMI. 5" exh. ARP studs heads & crank. Cooling upgrades. Rattle can camo.
Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes] #4485199
08/10/17 10:01 PM
08/10/17 10:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
xtell Offline
xtell  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
Yes. The Ohio company bought out the rights to make and sell the traditional Frantz filter. It is the unit that was in production for many years. The "Oil Refiner" unit that I have on one of my work trucks is made and sold buy a guy in California. He bought the patent rights from the Frantz family and the unit he produces and sells was a new bypass filter design that John Frantz patented towards the end of his life. It still uses a toilet paper roll but has several design upgrades when compared to the original Frantz Filter. Both filters work the same way though.


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