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#4475163 - 07/31/17 01:13 AM Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2863
Loc: california
This seemed interesting. If hasn't been shown before. I guess these folks bought Frantz.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/

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#4475183 - 07/31/17 03:46 AM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4392
Loc: Taiwan
I particularly liked the two identical images of the featureless grey filter media, which, when magnified, reveal two identical images of the featureless grey filter media.

Really gets the point across.

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#4475337 - 07/31/17 08:59 AM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3013
Loc: Occupied Virginia
So true. lol

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#4475585 - 07/31/17 01:15 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1810
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can achieve (because they have to maintain a large volume of oil which means they cannot compromise on flow rates, which means pressure drop is an issue, preventing small media pores from being used).

Where I am not convinced is whether it is necessary at all to obtain good engine wear protection. Motors that can run for 200K with conventional oil filtration suggests anything finer is unnecessary.

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.
_________________________
'57 FL Straight 50 wt
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'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]

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#4475774 - 07/31/17 04:51 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can


It's pretty obvious they do "something" as far as filtration, since as time goes by, they definitely "fail to get warm" in service because oil flow has ceased.

The only reason oil flow can cease is because they've trapped enough crud to stop flowing, I believe.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4475777 - 07/31/17 04:53 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


They don't understand the (Proven) business concept:
"Fast nickels are better than slow dimes"
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4476213 - 08/01/17 06:31 AM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 7392
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I am a believer in bypass filtering such as the Frantz system. When I say "I am a believer" what I mean is I believe that bypass filtering does what it says it does ... filter particles from oil better and down to a lower particle size than conventional oil filters can achieve ...

Where I am not convinced is whether it is necessary at all to obtain good engine wear protection. Motors that can run for 200K with conventional oil filtration suggests anything finer is unnecessary.


I could not agree more. A thousand times "Yes".

The overwhelming data in macro analysis tells us that they simply are not needed for the "normal" daily cycles we have with products today. Engines can run hundreds of thousands of miles, and run well, with just conventional oil and a decent filter, if typical OCIs are your mantra. Sure, there are a few examples of poorly made engines or ones with design flaws, but those are rare overall. Most all equipment can run a very productive life-cycle with no need for special equipment add-on's.
_________________________
The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money

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#4476592 - 08/01/17 02:27 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: dnewton3]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Sure, there are a few examples of poorly made engines or ones with design flaws, but those are rare overall.


LOL, any Porsche engine with an IMS shaft laugh
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4479919 - 08/05/17 01:11 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2863
Loc: california
I came pretty close to buying a nice used Ford diesel pickup 96 250HD supercab fully loaded with 71k, they don't rust here. That's what I would have put on it, the Frantz kit. Passed on it thinking about the expenses to keep it up. just to use it occasionally as a pickup truck. They have some nice data on the Frantz site to back up what they claim. If someone wants to toy with complaining about drawings while ignoring the text, that's fine as well. The fact they developed a synthetic media for the Frantz is interesting. They prices may seem high, but most American made, by people who make a living wage, is not cheap. Then there is the development cost which does not come cheap for a business either. I am glad to see the old school name living on.

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#4480412 - 08/06/17 03:43 AM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: Johnny2Bad]
xtell Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 520
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


I have been using the Frants filters since the late 1970's. The only parts that I have had to replace are: the O-rings that fit between the upper and lower parts and the hoses to / from the filter. The units I have are comprised of the old style Frants Filters and the new "Oil Refiner" unit. The thing is, the manufacturers of the Frantz Bypass filters have to: buy some of the components such as fittings, hoses, etc / some components have to be cast, the metal part that goes over the filter media has to be made. In addition, its not like they area selling these filters by the thousand every week. I had to go into an auto parts store an buy a little plastic AC Delco vacuum hose connector and it costs me $12. If you cant make it - you have to pay what they are asking. The guy making the Oil Refiner in California is the sole owner and he has people working for him to make / assemble the filters. The units he sells are quality filters. The prices for both kinds of Frants filters are very reasonable, when you pro rate the years of service you can get out of them. Aside from the O-rings and hoses, the units can last a lifetime.

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#4481221 - 08/06/17 08:38 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: xtell]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2863
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: xtell
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

The other issue I have is the Frantz system is made up of inexpensive parts yet sold for rather high prices. I can't help but feel that I would be throwing more ... maybe far more ... than $150 in their pockets should I buy a system. So I am not a buyer; it just bugs me that I think they could be selling these systems for much less and still make a reasonable profit.


I have been using the Frants filters since the late 1970's. The only parts that I have had to replace are: the O-rings that fit between the upper and lower parts and the hoses to / from the filter. The units I have are comprised of the old style Frants Filters and the new "Oil Refiner" unit. The thing is, the manufacturers of the Frantz Bypass filters have to: buy some of the components such as fittings, hoses, etc / some components have to be cast, the metal part that goes over the filter media has to be made. In addition, its not like they area selling these filters by the thousand every week. I had to go into an auto parts store an buy a little plastic AC Delco vacuum hose connector and it costs me $12. If you cant make it - you have to pay what they are asking. The guy making the Oil Refiner in California is the sole owner and he has people working for him to make / assemble the filters. The units he sells are quality filters. The prices for both kinds of Frants filters are very reasonable, when you pro rate the years of service you can get out of them. Aside from the O-rings and hoses, the units can last a lifetime.


These guys are in Ohio. Maybe they bought Frantz. I had them on cars back in the day, but the newer cars had no place for one.

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#4481936 - 08/07/17 03:42 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
Corelokt Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 163
Loc: Tug Hill, NY
Where do you put one on an electric vehicle? And, would it use biodegradable toilet paper?
_________________________
86 CUCV. 6.5L. Level-3 4L80. NP205. 9-16 14 ply tires, HX35/40 turbo. WMI. 5" exh. ARP studs heads & crank. Cooling upgrades. Rattle can camo.

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#4485199 - 08/10/17 10:01 PM Re: Cellulose and synthetic bypass elements [Re: goodtimes]
xtell Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 520
Loc: ohio
Yes. The Ohio company bought out the rights to make and sell the traditional Frantz filter. It is the unit that was in production for many years. The "Oil Refiner" unit that I have on one of my work trucks is made and sold buy a guy in California. He bought the patent rights from the Frantz family and the unit he produces and sells was a new bypass filter design that John Frantz patented towards the end of his life. It still uses a toilet paper roll but has several design upgrades when compared to the original Frantz Filter. Both filters work the same way though.

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