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Ester-based oil additives? #4472170
07/27/17 04:26 PM
07/27/17 04:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline OP
Oro_O  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
I am trying to school myself on ester-based oil additives/cleaners, which is what I gather Auto-RX is primarily. In my thinking (which could be wrong), the idea of a leave-in cleaner is very attractive compared to harsher instant flush compounds.

Are there other similar products out there?

Would using a high % ester-based oil achieve the same thing over time? Or are there certain types of esters that provide the solvency, and those are not what is found in typical engine oil?

I'm sure there must be old discussions on this subject, but I've been unable to get a clear answer or find a relevant thread.

Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472174
07/27/17 04:33 PM
07/27/17 04:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
TheKracken Offline
TheKracken  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
I was literally just looking into this same topic and would also like to know more. Maybe running 1 quart of a ester based oil like RLI or Red Line along with your other oil could help a lot with cleaning...and cheaper than ARX


2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472223
07/27/17 05:44 PM
07/27/17 05:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
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Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
Lubegard's Engine Oil Protectant has them. I use this product on my oil changes. smile

Lubegard Bio/Tech Engine Oil Protectant


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: TheKracken] #4472247
07/27/17 06:16 PM
07/27/17 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,859
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,859
Illinois
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
I was literally just looking into this same topic and would also like to know more. Maybe running 1 quart of a ester based oil like RLI or Red Line along with your other oil could help a lot with cleaning...and cheaper than ARX


Don't do it. Assuming you are using a quality oil, everything is in the package that you need.


2007 Ford Fusion 232,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 58K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: ltslimjim] #4472251
07/27/17 06:22 PM
07/27/17 06:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,472
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,472
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Lubegard's Engine Oil Protectant has them. I use this product on my oil changes. smile

"LUBEGARD® ENGINE OIL PROTECTANT contains Liquid Wax Ester (LXE®) Technology, the lubrication system of the future."


The reminds me of the 1980's - when people said "never use Pennzoil because it contains wax and causes sludge"!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472372
07/27/17 08:26 PM
07/27/17 08:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
Lots of oils contain wax. So what ...

AFAIK, Auto-RX has some animal fats in it that are completely different from most oil. That's the point. Cleaning often requires a change in chemistry for anything to happen.

The slowest and easiest, most gentle way to clean an older engine is to rotate through oils of target viscosity with wholly differing add paks. Sodium based, magnesium based, etc.

The next best way is BG109 (EPR), a full can per oil change at around 5,000 miles and a good oversized filter to catch the stuff that come loose over time.

The most aggressive way is with KREEN from Kano Labs. 8 oz or bigger dose and a 2,000 mile oil change using Super Tech. Also use oversized filter as stuff will be coming loose ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 07/27/17 08:27 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: BrocLuno] #4472559
07/27/17 11:29 PM
07/27/17 11:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
TheKracken Offline
TheKracken  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Lots of oils contain wax. So what ...

AFAIK, Auto-RX has some animal fats in it that are completely different from most oil. That's the point. Cleaning often requires a change in chemistry for anything to happen.

The slowest and easiest, most gentle way to clean an older engine is to rotate through oils of target viscosity with wholly differing add paks. Sodium based, magnesium based, etc.

The next best way is BG109 (EPR), a full can per oil change at around 5,000 miles and a good oversized filter to catch the stuff that come loose over time.

The most aggressive way is with KREEN from Kano Labs. 8 oz or bigger dose and a 2,000 mile oil change using Super Tech. Also use oversized filter as stuff will be coming loose ...


Do you know if they sell kreen on amazon? I cant seem to find it...so I use amsoil flush but I want something more aggressive for sure.

Also, are HDEO's still known for really good cleaning? I have lots of m1 tdt 5w40 to use and I really want to clean out the sienna and truck.

I was planning to cycle through different types of oil to clean as well. Using HDEO first then a ester based oil and then pennzoil gtl ultra for the last cleaning.


2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472572
07/27/17 11:42 PM
07/27/17 11:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,310
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,310
Iowegia - USA
Auto-RX is an ester made of Fatty acids derived from lanolin.

The ester is made by reacting that fatty acid with pentaerythritol (a special alcohol) to form the ester.

So the result is a POE or polyol ester.


The LubeGard LXE is an ester made of Fatty acids derived from rapeseed.

The ester is made by reacting that fatty acid with a special alcohol to form the ester.



Originally Posted By: tig1
...Assuming you are using a quality oil, everything is in the package that you need.


True

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/27/17 11:43 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding requires Study and an Open Mind.
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472620
07/28/17 02:57 AM
07/28/17 02:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline OP
Oro_O  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
Is the Lubegard XLE mostly ester? I had not heard of that before this thread - though I knew of the "red" version and have used it in the past. I read as much as I could about it, but was unclear if that was a majority or small amount of the product. In quart containers, it makes a more economical approach than $40 for 12 oz. of ARX. Based on the description, it sounds like the two products should have similar efficacy, though the LubeGard product does not appear to be marketed in the same way.

I have a vehicle with a specific oil coking issue that years of HDEO and M1 use will not address. This is not for prophylactic use or because I think quality oils are inadequate in general.

Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4472622
07/28/17 03:20 AM
07/28/17 03:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
Well, some engine models have specific issues that no lube will fix, but could perhaps minimize the effects of in a best case scenario. You may need to swap to a high mileage oil like MaxLife, they do have a fully synthetic version.

Lubegard is just an additive for boosting some of the crankcase fill. I primarily use it for fun at this point; no harm no foul. Potential MPG gains of course are probably negated by price point somewhat. It does have a bit of moly. Someone did a VOA, linked here:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3951216/1

It appears to be able to give some moly, calcium, phosphorus a nice shot and 3.7 TBN in an additive isn't bad. It's not meant to replace quarts of oil in the sump. I'm not sure if it's the base oil itself being esters and it mixed with another carrier or what, though. confused

Regardless, sometimes you can find the 32oz for a good price on Amazon. I got this following the dosage recommendations I can basically get 3 OCI uses out of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-40902-Tech-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8HYA/

Sometimes it's priced better in this bottle (different name same product):

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-30916-Heavy-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8H90/


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: ltslimjim] #4472624
07/28/17 03:26 AM
07/28/17 03:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline OP
Oro_O  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,454
Seattle-ish, WA
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Well, some engine models have specific issues that no lube will fix, but could perhaps minimize the effects of in a best case scenario. You may need to swap to a high mileage oil like MaxLife, they do have a fully synthetic version.


Yes, the FS Maxlife HM in 10w-30 looks like a very good oil; I use M1 HM 10w-30 in my vehicles so oil quality is not an issue. But those oils can't clean everything so I was looking to take advantage of the unique properties esters bring to the table.

Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4473121
07/28/17 02:37 PM
07/28/17 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Diesters provide more solvency that polyol esters, but they aren't as stable (more volatile). I'm pretty sure polyol esters are the more commonly used in PCMO due to their stability and relatively good solvency.

That being said, I think Brocluno's method of rotating through quality products with differing detergent chemistry types would leave your machine pretty [censored]'n'span clean if you are concerned the M1 you're already using isn't doing that already.

Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: ltslimjim] #4474370
07/30/17 06:15 AM
07/30/17 06:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,760
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,760
New York
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3951216/1

[url=Ithttps://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-40902-Tech-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8HYA/][url=Ithttps://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-40902-Tech-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8HYA/][url=Ithttps://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-40902-Tech-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8HYA/]Ithttps://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-40902-Tech-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8HYA/[/url][/url][/url]

Sometimes it's priced better in this bottle (different name same product):

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-30916-Heavy-Engine-Protectant/dp/B006HI8H90/




Are these 2 really the same product? I'm not doubting you Slim but I'm wondering why LG would use 2 different SKUs and call it something slightly different if they are the exact same?


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4474466
07/30/17 08:48 AM
07/30/17 08:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
I don't have it on hand but I recall someone reputable on the boards sharing what Lubegard responded with to this very question of what the difference was. It was simply marketing, IIRC. Probably one of the older LG threads a few years ago. It was one of those copy/paste email replies from a company.

However, lately I've noticed the regular is a better price.


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
Re: Ester-based oil additives? [Re: Oro_O] #4474494
07/30/17 09:22 AM
07/30/17 09:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,677
WatUpDoc
I found it:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2687190/Re:_Lubegard_Bio-tech_Regular_#Post2687190


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup
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