Have you guys seen this?

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Uh, oh... he should tell XOM about it... I'm sure they'll pull back their 20K Annual Protection oil off the shelves ASAP.
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Data hasn’t yet shown that synthetic oils and engine design alone are enough for motor oil to actually last beyond 10,000 mile service intervals.

But is there data that has shown the opposite to be true? He only nitpicked a couple of extreme examples that I'm not sure can be used to make blanket statements.

Although in general, I agree 15K OCI isn't good for every application out there.
 
It comes down to what you want to do. I agree with the idea that some of the 15K and longer intervals are actually driven by the manufacturers have as much to do with keeping down the cost of maintenance for the new car buyer and themselves if the service is included in the purchase.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
What are Nicholas Gregson's credentials?

His LinkedIn profile says "Marketing Manager Content Marketing Specialist, Photographer, Blogger"
with an Associate of Arts degree.
 
My son's 110,000 mile 3er is surviving nicely on BMW 5W-30 and BMW 0W-30 changed at @15,000 mile intervals, but of course it's a NA motor. My 2er is turbocharged and has a 10,000 mile OCI. UOAs of my modded MS3 indicated that M1 5W-30 was good for a 10,000 mile OCI so I'm not too worried.
 
The thing about the 15k and 20k oils is the average customer might take that the wrong way. Say your a normal guy that doesn't know much but owns 3-4 cars. He might by that oil thinking he can go 2-3 years without an oil change as long as the miles are under 15-20k. The average guy isn't gonna know anything other than what the miles says and forget about it.
 
You mean I can't run 60K mile OCIs?
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His points may have some validity; however, he is discussing 15K mile OCIs and posting two shocking photos of a vehicle with 60K mile gunk.
It may not be intentional on the authors part but it is misleading.

Besides, articles with photos of such graphic abuse should really come with a warning that viewer discretion is advised when displayed on a site like BITOG where guys spend more time worrying about the correct motor oil than new mothers do worrying about the formula they are giving their own infants.
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Originally Posted By: Urshurak776

He says we are ruining engines going longer than 10K. Maybe he's right?


Back in 1985 when all we had was 5-6 oil brands and all were API rated SD/SE or CC/CD, I'd say he's probably right.

Not any more.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
You mean I can't run 60K mile OCIs?
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Besides, articles with photos of such graphic abuse should really come with a warning that viewer discretion is advised when displayed on a site like BITOG where guys spend more time worrying about the correct motor oil than new mothers do worrying about the formula they are giving their own infants.
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Thanks for the laugh...That's the best description I've heard in awhile of the typical BITOGER. BTW, I'm going on ~35K+ right now without an oil change, but I'm running multiple bypass filters, (and other devices), topping off, changing filters, and my results are supported by (Polaris and Blackstone) UOA.

But yes, Blackstone tells me that the average OCI for my engine (according to their data) is about 4700 miles...
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Urshurak776

He says we are ruining engines going longer than 10K. Maybe he's right?


Back in 1985 when all we had was 5-6 oil brands and all were API rated SD/SE or CC/CD, I'd say he's probably right.

Not any more.


His points mirror mine. Quite simply, the thin oil, coupled with long oil change intervals resulted in a large number of balancer and timing chain issues for GM. The reason: High levels of particulates accelerate chain wear.

BMW found much the same. In fact, BMW went to very high viscosity oils in some engines to help eliminate the high wear rates in those engines with extended drain intervals. While the high viscosity helped, it did not solve the problem.

Oil changes are downright inexpensive. The total cost of the additional, more frequent oil change interval is a viable form of long term insurance. I'm still driving my 2003 Jag, with 170K miles, on a 2.5L V6 that is known for spinning rod bearings at 100-120K. I don't expect any issues, as I change frequently, with M1, 5W-40 TDT. An oil far more robust and more viscous oil than the OEM requirements. And I hit redline multiple times daily.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Urshurak776

He says we are ruining engines going longer than 10K. Maybe he's right?


Back in 1985 when all we had was 5-6 oil brands and all were API rated SD/SE or CC/CD, I'd say he's probably right.

Not any more.


His points mirror mine. Quite simply, the thin oil, coupled with long oil change intervals resulted in a large number of balancer and timing chain issues for GM. The reason: High levels of particulates accelerate chain wear.

BMW found much the same. In fact, BMW went to very high viscosity oils in some engines to help eliminate the high wear rates in those engines with extended drain intervals. While the high viscosity helped, it did not solve the problem.

Oil changes are downright inexpensive. The total cost of the additional, more frequent oil change interval is a viable form of long term insurance. I'm still driving my 2003 Jag, with 170K miles, on a 2.5L V6 that is known for spinning rod bearings at 100-120K. I don't expect any issues, as I change frequently, with M1, 5W-40 TDT. An oil far more robust and more viscous oil than the OEM requirements. And I hit redline multiple times daily.


I feel better about running high visc oil now. Thanks for the gm scenario.
 
Originally Posted By: OilSwag
The thing about the 15k and 20k oils is the average customer might take that the wrong way. Say your a normal guy that doesn't know much but owns 3-4 cars. He might by that oil thinking he can go 2-3 years without an oil change as long as the miles are under 15-20k. The average guy isn't gonna know anything other than what the miles says and forget about it.


I'd be more concerned with the average guy with an average engine that starts to burn a quart or two every few thousand miles, then lets it go 15-20k without ever checking the level only to find the engine blown with an empty sump!

That's one good thing about frequent changes, people are more likely to remember to get an oil change every 3-5k than check their oil every few months (like us bitogers do!).
 
I agree with him 100%.
I seriously don't understand the logic in running long oil changes or the same filter twice. I never let my oil go longer than 6 months or 5,000 miles. Oil is too cheap and especially when you link up to awesome deals on clearance oil and filters. Just not good sense.
 
I know a family member who drives to the bmw dealer 30 min one way and sits there for an hour to have 1 quart added. Probably more than once before oil change. They cud have just drained the oil imo.
 
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I still don't understand the purpose of waiting more than 10,000 miles to change your oil. Is the oil still "good?" Maybe, but you'd have to get it laboratory tested to confirm - and even then, is it in better condition than brand new oil? No way.

I think the most accurate point to take away from the article is that any adverse effects from abusive oil change intervals will not show up immediately. It will take longer down the road before you develop oil consumption or leaks, and then the mechanical problems like early fouled spark plugs, stretched timing chain guides, or catalytic converter woes.
 
So this BITOG'er is doing something wrong ...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4445186/Amsoil_SS_5w-20,_62,000_miles,#Post4445186

Of course he's using by-pass filtering and Amsoil signature, so maybe Mobil1 is not as good
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Originally Posted By: Urshurak776


He says we are ruining engines going longer than 10K. Maybe he's right?


Mercedes-Benz has always specified high quality lubes & fluids. Having said that, when I started as a dealer tech in '00, their max service interval was 13k miles/2 years...as it had been since the FSS service schedule began in '98. Around '05, they reduced it to 13k miles/1 year. In '09, they reduced it 10k miles/1 year, and it has stayed there since.

Haven't heard any official reasoning from service engineering, but one can't help but wonder.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I agree with him 100%.
I seriously don't understand the logic in running long oil changes or the same filter twice. I never let my oil go longer than 6 months or 5,000 miles. Oil is too cheap and especially when you link up to awesome deals on clearance oil and filters. Just not good sense.


I couldn't agree more, although I've learned to keep my mouth shut as I'm quickly told I'm wasting $ or oil on here. I've never heard someone say they didn't want to buy my car when it was time to sell or trade it in because I changed the oil too much. In fact it's usually the exact opposite.

If I was in the market for a used car, I'd pick the one that had more frequent oil changes, if all else was equal.
 
It's not a big deal to change early. Some like to extend, and there's value in that. Obviously, it's not for everyone, but many people have done very well with it. With some of the travelling salesmen we have out here in North America with the vast distances, short OCIs would be a royal pain. Look at new poster SDG in the Castrol extended thread, with 225,000 miles on a 2015. Even at 5,000 miles that's a pile of oil changes.
 
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