ATF that meets many spec's: How can it?

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I have a hard time trusting the universal stuff too.


I have trouble trusting people who don't trust the Universal or Multi-Vehicle stuff.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I would (and do) trust Amsoil to make a multi-vehicle ATF. But they have a few, it's not just one size fits all. If Redline or Valvoline sells a mult-vehicle ATF I would also probably trust them.

What you do not want is a generic ATF where the local shop adds an additive to make it perfect for your vehicle.


Three cheers and thank you for that statement.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
To those mentioning warranty concerns, in my similar thread this past May I noted that I contacted 8 local dealers about a SP4-M fluid change and ALL of them used either BG or Valvolene fluids for vehicles still under warranty. My daughter had her Sorento transmission fluid changed at 4 years, 50,000 miles and they used BG (KIA 10yr./100K Warranty).

The dealers are not concerned about warranty concerns using universal fluids. I did investigate BG products (not an advocate for any brand) and their label states "meets or exceeds performance requirements" vs. what Sayjac stated about Valvolene. I wonder what Amsoil, Redline, and that purple stuff states?

The BG fluid viscosity is somewhat higher than SP4-M, which bothers me.


File that under "do as I say, not as I do" in relation to dealers using non OEM approved fluids and warranty concerns. Right or wrong, the dealership is the gate keep between you and corporate approving warranty repair. Dealership of course is going to pencil whip in their favor any warranty ticket they write up regardless of what fluid they used. DIY'r showing the same or similar use of like fluids, may not get the same outcome or consideration.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Donald


What you do not want is a generic ATF where the local shop adds an additive to make it perfect for your vehicle.

And there are lube shops who do that as well - even to this day. Even though their oil wholesaler is happy to sell them a drum of Castrol/Pennzoil/Valvoline AMAM ATF.

The Japanese won't unify behind one JASO standard, the Europeans could be happy with one ZF-listed fluid but you also have Mercedes who makes their own trannies(except for buses and trucks), BMW/VW who switch off between Aisin and ZF between models. If the Japanese OEMs formally said that JASO M315 was acceptable for aftermarket fill and had some kind of approval process, I think this AMAM ATF issue can be somewhat resolved.

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: tig1
I am at the point where I don't really trust an ATF that meets many differenty spec's, for several different makes.


Mostly they can't. Read the specs, relevant papers and articles.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I have a hard time trusting the universal stuff too.


I have trouble trusting people who don't trust the Universal or Multi-Vehicle stuff.

I don't trust anyone who doesn't trust people who do not trust the universal stuff or multi vehicle transmission fluid..

 

[4WD]

Poured in MaxLife in a DexVI application when my parts house ran out of Valvoline D6 - I compared the properties - and it is shifting very well. Going to only run 30k ... vehicle is hard on ATF - and just a gallon dumps
I use Castrol Synthetic Multi in my 4L60e but it carries Dex VI approvals. This one only dumps a gallon too.

 

[Hootbro]

https://pubs.lubesngreases.com/lubereport/17_30/legal/ATF-Labels-Face-a-Rewrite-12189-1.html


Quote:
..............Based on automotive market research by IMR Inc., transmission replacements accounted for only one percent of all vehicle repairs in 2016. With some 12 million vehicles serviced annually with multi-vehicle ATF technologies, these fluids are providing the proper level of protection against transmission failure.”..............


Quote:
.......... more than 100 ATF types or technologies are available in today’s market. “Multi-vehicle ATFs technologies have been developed and are used by both OEM dealerships and independent repair shops to manage effectively this increasingly complex market, reduce inventories, reduce potential misapplication and increase customer choice,” she said. “Based on additive company estimates, including an average vehicle mileage of 10,000 miles per year, multi-vehicle ATF technologies have accumulated over 5.5 trillion miles of real-world experience since their introduction.”............

 

[Tundragod]

Who uses Certified Dexron-III/Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid from Samsclub? Desc: Dexron III/Mercon is a premium multi-purpose lubricant for automatic transmissions in both passenger cars and light trucks requiring a fluid that meets the General Motors Dexron III or Ford Mercon specifications.

It is $1.23/qts

 

[Mainia]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
To those mentioning warranty concerns, in my similar thread this past May I noted that I contacted 8 local dealers about a SP4-M fluid change and ALL of them used either BG or Valvolene fluids for vehicles still under warranty. My daughter had her Sorento transmission fluid changed at 4 years, 50,000 miles and they used BG (KIA 10yr./100K Warranty).

The dealers are not concerned about warranty concerns using universal fluids. I did investigate BG products (not an advocate for any brand) and their label states "meets or exceeds performance requirements" vs. what Sayjac stated about Valvolene. I wonder what Amsoil, Redline, and that purple stuff states?

The BG fluid viscosity is somewhat higher than SP4-M, which bothers me.



I missed this one. Do you know that you dumped out a group 5 Hyundai ATF and most likely put in a group 3 or group3/4 AFT. So using BG or Valvoline is a downgrade. Use Redline and you are using a group 5, I would be willing to bet Redline has a better add-pack.

.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: Tundragod
Who uses Certified Dexron-III/Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid from Samsclub? Desc: Dexron III/Mercon is a premium multi-purpose lubricant for automatic transmissions in both passenger cars and light trucks requiring a fluid that meets the General Motors Dexron III or Ford Mercon specifications.

It is $1.23/qts


I would run it in an old car that called for it

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: tig1
I am at the point where I don't really trust an ATF that meets many differenty spec's, for several different makes.


Based on what evidence?

Or just "feelings"?


Based on common since. On ATF that covers 10-20 different auto manufactures does not sound just right to me.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Based on common since. On ATF that covers 10-20 different auto manufactures does not sound just right to me.


How is that common sense ?

Each manufacturer has, over the years had more than 20 differently designed transmissions, all with their own design details, and probably only have one (group, e.g. Dexron) to cover the lot...other manufacturers have similar ranges of transmission designs with their own variances and vagaries (and they still spec the same ATF for the lot).

Soooooo....why is it a stretch to say that a multi can serve multiple vehicles, when an OEM's "standard" coveres their entire range ?

You can't tell me that Dex6 and AC Delco 75W90 is the absolute best combination of lubricants for every GM vehicle produced on the planet.

Why are you using multi vehicle Mobil 1 in your Ford engines, when Motorcraft oils are clearly built for them ?

 

[Shannow]

By multi-vehicle, I mean...

Quote:
Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SN, SM, SL, SJ
ILSAC GF-5
Ford WSS-M2C947-A

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy has the following builder approvals:
General Motors Service Fill dexos1™ (license number GB1D0415015)

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy is of the following quality level:
General Motors GM 6094M
API CF


Some actual testing, and some claimed performance...is that fishy too ???

 

[userfriendly]

http://lubricants.petro-canada.com/productoverview/brand/productline/duradrive

read "case study"

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: userfriendly
http://lubricants.petro-canada.com/productoverview/brand/productline/duradrive read "case study"


Regarding Petro Canada's application approval for low viscosity ATFs, their product states:

"DuraDrive MV Synthetic ATF is a high viscosity formulation and does not meet the viscosity profiles of these low viscosity specifications. Field testing results have demonstrated proof of no harm but product will not provide the potential fuel economy benefits of the low viscosity genuine oils."

They went a different route than low viscosity MAXLIFE ATF. Petro Canada's opinion seems to be that low ATF viscosity is more about fuel savings vs. better transmission protection?? Two universal ATF products covering similar applications, with quite different properties.



Comments? How much fuel savings is realized with lower viscosity? Doesn't lower viscosity provide better flow and cooling?

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Based on common since. On ATF that covers 10-20 different auto manufactures does not sound just right to me.


How is that common sense ?
Soooooo....why is it a stretch to say that a multi can serve multiple vehicles, when an OEM's "standard" coveres their entire range ?



Bad argument. Manufactures has tested their transmissions for their fluid ALONE, period. Now its upto the owner to use the speced fluid or risk sticking in an universal fluid. You forget to understand there are many components that affect a transmission incl. fluid pressures interaction with material and programming. There is more than what meets the eye, now there is no mystery with gear fluids, any OTC will surfice since they are just gear sets, no interaction to material science and software programming for [censored] points.

Now GM/Ford/Chrysler have licensing requirements which helps owners to chose OEM/OTC base/synthetic fluids based on their vallets, Japanese/Euro vehicle don't, that is a gripe.

 

[userfriendly]

doitmyself;

Saving the vegan whales...

I picked up on that too. Someone mentioned that in addition to 15W50 engine oil on Corvette track days, Mobil synthetic ATF is also recommended in the 8L90E transmissions that normally spec. Dex6.
If you add all the little MPG improvements on a 1500 pickup truck for example; 0W20 engine oil, 75W90 in the diffs., Dex6 in the tranny 'n transfer case and 22" tires, you might see a 3% fuel economy improvment during the 1st mile on a cold morning.

 

[ryanm8]

I'm now a fan of multi ATF products. With the possible exception of euro manufacturers, I think most OEM's spec relatively low quality ATF that is not fully synthetic. They tend to degrade fairly quickly.

One example I can think of is with my girlfriend's Nissan Rogue. I always used Nissan NS2 fluid in that car. After about 20-25k on fresh fluid I would notice that the CVT would start to get whiney on hard acceleration. My guess is it's due to shear. Changing the fluid would always fix it though for another 20-25k.

This past oil change i switched to Castrol Transmax CVT and the transmission has never felt better. The whine is gone and it feels quieter and smoother all around. I am willing to bet it won't start whining after 20-25k either, but I plan on changing the fluid at 30k either way.

My 2 cents is if a full synthetic multi ATF meets your car's specs, use with confidence.

 

[Mainia]

Originally Posted By: ryanm8
I'm now a fan of multi ATF products. With the possible exception of euro manufacturers, I think most OEM's spec relatively low quality ATF that is not fully synthetic. They tend to degrade fairly quickly.

One example I can think of is with my girlfriend's Nissan Rogue. I always used Nissan NS2 fluid in that car. After about 20-25k on fresh fluid I would notice that the CVT would start to get whiney on hard acceleration. My guess is it's due to shear. Changing the fluid would always fix it though for another 20-25k.

This past oil change i switched to Castrol Transmax CVT and the transmission has never felt better. The whine is gone and it feels quieter and smoother all around. I am willing to bet it won't start whining after 20-25k either, but I plan on changing the fluid at 30k either way.

My 2 cents is if a full synthetic multi ATF meets your car's specs, use with confidence.



Bing, Bing, Bing!! We have a winner!!!!

OEM oils are NOTHING impressive. Just manufactures "Dogma" in most cases, if not all cases.

.