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Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA #4468494
07/23/17 10:41 PM
07/23/17 10:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 408
PA
dnastrau Offline OP
dnastrau  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 408
PA
I thought this was strange...

I was travelling west on I-84 crossing the Delaware River from NY to PA tonight (right where NY, NJ and PA meet) and a NYS Trooper passed me on the bridge. He proceeded to pull over a car on the PA side (the car had a PA plate as well). I didn't think this would be possible because he was out of his jurisdiction where he actually pulled the car over. I am assuming that he pulled the car over for speeding and had clocked the car on the NY side. I would think he would have to radio a PA Trooper to pick the car up on the PA side. Obviously my assumption was incorrect. Has anyone seen anything like this before?

Andrew S.

Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468499
07/23/17 10:51 PM
07/23/17 10:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,330
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Online content
bdcardinal  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,330
Santa Barbara, CA
I would think the NYS officer could pull the car over and then radio for a PA state officer to issue the citation.

Little known fact is in California an officer can pull someone over outside of their jurisdiction. I was on the 101 Freeway going up the Canejo Grade when a Simi Valley PD car passed me like I was standing still. Go up a couple miles and the officer had a car pulled over and 2 people making ghetto angels on the asphalt at gunpoint when he was technically in Thousand Oaks.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468503
07/23/17 10:55 PM
07/23/17 10:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,438
New Mexico, USA
jimbrewer Offline
jimbrewer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,438
New Mexico, USA
Hot pursuit or possibly an intergovernmental agreement.

All that stuff should be streamlined as much as possible. If the Taxpayers next door want to pay for my law enforcement, let them.

Arizona has the right attitude:If the cop graduated from the state certified academy he should have statewide jurisdiction.

The anomaly is that the Navajo tribal police have the largest territorial jurisdiction in the state, but so what?

Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468504
07/23/17 10:56 PM
07/23/17 10:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Could be "hot pursuit" agreements in play. If you have someone breaking a traffic law and then crosses a jurisdictional line you can still make the stop.

Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468505
07/23/17 10:57 PM
07/23/17 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
The officer will have reported his location and will receive backup from a local cruiser; however, the violation occurred in his jurisdiction and that is the where the citation will originate and that is the traffic court it would be contested.

In this example, it was the NYS Trooper who was witness to the offense and would be the officer to issue the ticket. The PA officer could not defend the ticket if the offender wishes to fight it in court since the PA officer was not witness to the event.


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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468506
07/23/17 10:59 PM
07/23/17 10:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
If the crime occurred in New York, they can (and will) pull you over in PA. The ticket issued would be a New York ticket. A PA trooper could not issue a ticket, because the crime occurred in New York.

Where it gets sticky (extremely) is when (if) the offender needs arrested. They would be charged with violating a New York law, but since they were arrested in PA, they would have to go to a PA jail, and the NY trooper would have to use PA paperwork to hold the individual, something they have no idea how to do. Its a sticky mess. Then the offender needs to be extradited back to New York to face charges. The extradition process could take 30-90 days, or longer.

Basically, if I was a trooper, I better have a DARN good reason to make that traffic stop. Because the paperwork can be a mess if someone needs jailed.


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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468520
07/23/17 11:24 PM
07/23/17 11:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,981
Upper Midwest by the Lakes USA
SumpChump Offline
SumpChump  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,981
Upper Midwest by the Lakes USA
My grandfather told a story about how as part of the "new" Redstone Missle Arsenal (Army) back in the early 50's .... he had to drive down from NJ to the south (Alabama) promptly. He apparently had some skills they needed badly. So he got pulled over for some vehicle infraction by a zealous office who had noted the northern plate. He was hassled and "taken in" after trying to plead his case (could'nt pay on the spot or something). He called his superior back in NJ who then called someone above him and it ended up in the NJ Governor's office somehow. He explained to me that the officer/local PD was told that if he wasn't allowed to proceed that every car with an Alabama plate would be hassled in NJ. He was promptly released and was in the road towards Redstone.

Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468534
07/23/17 11:55 PM
07/23/17 11:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
There's a local interstate ring highway around Cincinnati called 275 that passes through 3 states. Northern Kentucky for maybe 20 miles, Indiana for something like 4 miles, then Ohio for 45 miles maybe. I always wondered how an interstate kerfluffle on that highway would look with regard to agencies involved. Probably the reason why I never see an Indiana cop on the tiny Indiana section of that highway!


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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: bdcardinal] #4468571
07/24/17 02:57 AM
07/24/17 02:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Falcon_LS Offline
Falcon_LS  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I would think the NYS officer could pull the car over and then radio for a PA state officer to issue the citation.

Little known fact is in California an officer can pull someone over outside of their jurisdiction. I was on the 101 Freeway going up the Canejo Grade when a Simi Valley PD car passed me like I was standing still. Go up a couple miles and the officer had a car pulled over and 2 people making ghetto angels on the asphalt at gunpoint when he was technically in Thousand Oaks.


I always thought that was weird. I saw an LA County Sheriff pull someone over on the 55 where it merges with the 91 near the Santa Ana River once. I thought he was out of his jurisdiction, this was in Orange, but now it makes sense - didn't know they could pull someone over outside of their jurisdiction.


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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468595
07/24/17 05:47 AM
07/24/17 05:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,740
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,740
New York
There are a lot of anomalies when it comes to LEO's between states.
Everyday, hundreds of NYC police officers commute to and from Rockland and Orange Counties in NY by passing through NJ and crossing the GW Bridge....technically they are breaking NJ law by carrying their firearms...


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: pbm] #4468597
07/24/17 05:48 AM
07/24/17 05:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: pbm
There are a lot of anomalies when it comes to LEO's between states.
Everyday, hundreds of NYC police officers commute to and from Rockland and Orange Counties in NY by passing through NJ and crossing the GW Bridge....technically they are breaking NJ law by carrying their firearms...
Doesn't LEOSA cover them?


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468598
07/24/17 05:49 AM
07/24/17 05:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
My question is why is a New York Trooper working that close to the state line that this would even be a issue.
Regardless Police will do whatever they feel they can get away with. My wife and I once a Pennsylvania State trooper signal over four cars at once by pointing at the cars then the side of the road. We were all in a group.
We were the third car, as soon as he got to the first car window, we pulled out. The fourth car did the same behind us. Really he thought he was going to get four cars at once for speeding, I guess if your stupid enough to stay there and wait.



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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: Panzerman] #4468602
07/24/17 05:52 AM
07/24/17 05:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,668
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,668
Champlain/Hudson Valley
To L_Sludger's example involving: "... interstate ring highway around Cincinnati called 275 that passes through 3 states. Northern Kentucky for maybe 20 miles, Indiana for something like 4 miles, then Ohio for 45 miles..."

You'd go to Merry-Go-Round Court. It's dizzying.

Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468607
07/24/17 06:02 AM
07/24/17 06:02 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,383
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,383
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Law Enforcement can pretty much do anything, and then you have to go to court to prove them wrong.

However, many agencies' dispatch will tell the officer to straight up to mind their own business and keep moving.


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Re: Saw a NYS trooper pull over a car in PA [Re: dnastrau] #4468641
07/24/17 06:59 AM
07/24/17 06:59 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
All States that I'm aware of have compacts (or other legal agreements) that allow for bordering states to pursue from across the border. Same goes for cities.

This comes down to the jurisdictional agreements, departmental SOP, and the type of violation.

Most traffic offenses are "civil" in nature (not criminal) and therefore the evidence needs only be a "preponderence" and not "beyond reasonable doubt". This happens all the time; lots of examples that have enforcement that goes over a bridge, across a line, etc. The "event" needs only be documented and filed in the jurisdiction that it occurred. Where the "stop" takes place for an infraction isn't going to come into play. The NY cop can pull someone over in PA to issue a NY citation for an event that occurred in NY, and no court is going to blink an eye. That is true of all states, and counties, and cities and towns ...

Where it does get more involved is if a crime is later detected at the stop itself. Say the officer from NY gets you pulled over for speeding in PA, and discovers that you're suspended, or drunk, or in possession of stolen "xyz", or wanted on a warrant, or whatever ... He has two choices:
1) call for PA response, have them incarcerate you with a hold for extradition, and file to get you back into NY (because he witnessed you in NY, therefore the crime did occur there)
2) call for PA response, have them arrest you in PA jurisdiction, and use his PC for the stop as the basis for contact (his contact is the basis for their arrest; it's been legally done before many times and ruled not a violation of Rights)

Where is gets more interesting is if crimes occur during the pursuit itself. Say someone robs a bank in NY along the border, but flees to PA. Along the way, he's being pursued in flight by NY. And he commits not only the crime of origin, but crimes of wreckless driving, felony fleeing, property destruction, etc. He'll end up being arrested in both NY and PA, but he'll go to incarceration where he's caught (in this case, PA). But because he did crimes in both states (because it was a real "pursuit" with multi-agencies and becomes one of those TV-worthy events), then he'll have the joy of being prosecuted in both places for the crimes which occurred in each.

This is not a new topic by any means; it's been covered in LEO for decades. There are a bazillion municipalities that straddle a border between counties and even states. Places like Louisville KY are 100% in KY, but the populous moves back-and-forth across into IN for work and home all the time. Places like the "Region" in Indiana deal with this all the time; Hammond, Munster, Calumet City, Lansing, etc all utilize the ability of LEOs to go across a state line. There are places where you cannot even tell whatsoever where the line is, unless you're from the area.

This is a must-have in terms of useful enforcement. It if were not so, a "criminal" could just hop over a border and get away Scot-Free. I cannot think of a State that does not have some type of mutual-aid and pursuit agreement.

The difference is the type of event. Civil infractions are not going to involve the second entity; it's only a place to pull over and deliver the citation. Crimes, OTOH, will incur jurisdictional cooperation.

Last edited by dnewton3; 07/24/17 07:03 AM.

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