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ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? #4468073
07/23/17 01:41 PM
07/23/17 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,980
Illinois
tig1 Online content OP
tig1  Online Content OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,980
Illinois
I am at the point where I don't really trust an ATF that meets many differenty spec's, for several different makes.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468085
07/23/17 01:53 PM
07/23/17 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,349
NoVA
Jimzz Offline
Jimzz  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,349
NoVA
Because many makers fluid are not that much different. Most of the issues were the viscosity and how it holds up to heat. You notice all the ATFs that meet a lot of specs is a synthetic base like Valvoline Maxlife for example. So since the fluid can hold its viscosity much better now it can work on more vehicles.


yup
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468087
07/23/17 01:54 PM
07/23/17 01:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,385
VA
Gebo Offline
Gebo  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,385
VA
Originally Posted By: tig1
I am at the point where I don't really trust an ATF that meets many differenty spec's, for several different makes.


I feel exactly the same as you.


'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K
'07 Lex GX470 60K
Amsoil in all engines, transmissions and differentials

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468095
07/23/17 02:04 PM
07/23/17 02:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Quote:
The secret of Multi-Vehicle ATF's such as MaxLife or D4 or D6 or Amsoil ATF's is the mix of specialized friction modifier chemistry's which cover a spectrum of dynamic friction coefficients.

Broad Spectrum ATF

Originally Posted By: tig1
I have wondered if this spec thing is more of a scam than anything else. I have used M1 ATF for years in the Fusion and M1 ATF doesn't have the FNR-5 spec. that my Fusion calls for.


What do you think M1 ATF is?

It is mostly a higher viscosity version of Redline D6, MaxLife ATF, and Amsoil ATL.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4418097/1


Last edited by MolaKule; 07/23/17 02:08 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468104
07/23/17 02:11 PM
07/23/17 02:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,589
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,589
MA
I think if you're in a jam and that's the only fluid available use it. But if you have the option, I'd use the one that meets the spec. Valvoline is actually the worse, they claim that their fluid is suitable for applications that call for a specific spec, but they're not actually certified for that spec. I think they have to pay some license fee to do it and they don't pay it. Their Mercon V and other fluids are like that. There are actually alternatives that meet spec and are cheaper than Valvoline (like supertech) so why bother with a fluid that isn't approved by the manufacturer?

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: Wolf359] #4468122
07/23/17 02:35 PM
07/23/17 02:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
But if you have the option, I'd use the one that meets the spec. Valvoline is actually the worse, they claim that their fluid is suitable for applications that call for a specific spec, but they're not actually certified for that spec...


Don't know what you mean by actually worse.

Projected coverage and Labeling have been discussed many times before here on BITOG.

No where does Valvoline or any of the other Multi-Vehicle ATF manufacturers claim licensing numbers by the OEM's.

Most ATF manufacturers such as Valvoline also carry Certified fluids that carry OEM licensing numbers, but at a higher per quart price, because licensing adds to the cost.








Last edited by MolaKule; 07/23/17 02:36 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: Wolf359] #4468124
07/23/17 02:36 PM
07/23/17 02:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,551
DELAWARE
Hootbro Offline
Hootbro  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,551
DELAWARE
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I think if you're in a jam and that's the only fluid available use it. But if you have the option, I'd use the one that meets the spec. Valvoline is actually the worse, they claim that their fluid is suitable for applications that call for a specific spec, but they're not actually certified for that spec. I think they have to pay some license fee to do it and they don't pay it. Their Mercon V and other fluids are like that. There are actually alternatives that meet spec and are cheaper than Valvoline (like supertech) so why bother with a fluid that isn't approved by the manufacturer?


So where is the data showing transmissions exploded because they used a consumer manufactured "recommend" ATF vs. actual licensed ATF product? Examples of people doing their first ATF change at 150K miles do not count, I am talking about normal service interval changes.

I think these multi-vehicle ATF makers like Valvoline, Mobil, AMSOIL and a host of others have done their homework. In my opinion, most of these vehicle makers that spec low viscosity fluids Mercon LV, Dexron VI, Toyota WS, Matic S and others, are all basically calling for the same fluid but pride does not allow them to call out an already made fluid used in other makes and they then spec their own fluid and call it something proprietary.

If people are in warranty, I get the need to stay with something licensed, but outside warranty, there is plenty of reliable multi-fluids to fill ones maintenance needs.


2018 RAM 2500 Cummins 6.7L (Delvac 1300 15W-40)
2017 Jeep Renegade 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468125
07/23/17 02:38 PM
07/23/17 02:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
thumbsup thumbsup


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: MolaKule] #4468149
07/23/17 03:20 PM
07/23/17 03:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,589
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,589
MA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
But if you have the option, I'd use the one that meets the spec. Valvoline is actually the worse, they claim that their fluid is suitable for applications that call for a specific spec, but they're not actually certified for that spec...


Don't know what you mean by actually worse.

Projected coverage and Labeling have been discussed many times before here on BITOG.

No where does Valvoline or any of the other Multi-Vehicle ATF manufacturers claim licensing numbers by the OEM's.

Most ATF manufacturers such as Valvoline also carry Certified fluids that carry OEM licensing numbers, but at a higher per quart price, because licensing adds to the cost.









I feel they're the worse because they're basically mass market fluids which you can find on the shelf at the local Walmart. There are other fluids that do the same thing, but they're more boutique fluids so the owners probably know what they're getting into when buying them. I think they're basically somewhat deceptive because their wording usually says "suitable for applications that call for xxx" but it doesn't actually say that it meets that spec so if you don't read it carefully you'd think it met the spec. And I'm not sure Valvoline actually has a fluid that can be easily found on the shelf that meets Mercon V spec or even MB 236.14 (ATF 134).

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
If people are in warranty, I get the need to stay with something licensed, but outside warranty, there is plenty of reliable multi-fluids to fill ones maintenance needs.


My question is why would you pay more to buy a fluid that doesn't meet manufacturer spec when there are cheaper fluids out there that meet spec? Doesn't make any sense. Plus when your transmission blows up, do you blame the transmission or the fluid? You've got a tough case to prove there, why take the risk by using something that doesn't meet spec? Again, the whole thing doesn't make sense. Pointless risk, don't really see the potential gain.

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: Wolf359] #4468159
07/23/17 03:26 PM
07/23/17 03:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
But if you have the option, I'd use the one that meets the spec. Valvoline is actually the worse, they claim that their fluid is suitable for applications that call for a specific spec, but they're not actually certified for that spec...


Don't know what you mean by actually worse.

Projected coverage and Labeling have been discussed many times before here on BITOG.

No where does Valvoline or any of the other Multi-Vehicle ATF manufacturers claim licensing numbers by the OEM's.

Most ATF manufacturers such as Valvoline also carry Certified fluids that carry OEM licensing numbers, but at a higher per quart price, because licensing adds to the cost.



I feel they're the worse because they're basically mass market fluids which you can find on the shelf at the local Walmart. There are other fluids that do the same thing, but they're more boutique fluids so the owners probably know what they're getting into when buying them. I think they're basically somewhat deceptive because their wording usually says "suitable for applications that call for xxx" but it doesn't actually say that it meets that spec so if you don't read it carefully you'd think it met the spec. And I'm not sure Valvoline actually has a fluid that can be easily found on the shelf that meets Mercon V spec or even MB 236.14 (ATF 134).

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
If people are in warranty, I get the need to stay with something licensed, but outside warranty, there is plenty of reliable multi-fluids to fill ones maintenance needs.


My question is why would you pay more to buy a fluid that doesn't meet manufacturer spec when there are cheaper fluids out there that meet spec? Doesn't make any sense. Plus when your transmission blows up, do you blame the transmission or the fluid? You've got a tough case to prove there, why take the risk by using something that doesn't meet spec? Again, the whole thing doesn't make sense. Pointless risk, don't really see the potential gain.


Valvoline MaxLife labeling indicates MerconV coverage except in California which took issue with the viscosity requirement but which PQIA earlier accepted a statement indicating Valvoline's line of reasoning.

Quote:
*Please note that legislation in California prohibits Valvoline from recommending MaxLife™ ATF in certain applications where the viscometrics of MaxLife™ ATF do not match those of the official OEM specification. Valvoline therefore does not recommend the use of MaxLife™ ATF in these applications in California.


Of course we are aware of California's pendent for Overregulation.

Quote:
I think they're basically somewhat deceptive because their wording usually says "suitable for applications that call for xxx" but it doesn't actually say that it meets that spec so if you don't read it carefully you'd think it met the spec.


Nothing deceptive about it as long as they don't state the respective fluids are licensed by the OEM's.

Don't know why there are two separate threads on the same subject???? ??? I guess people are only interested in their own worlds.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4389454/'Broad_Spectrum'_ATF,_how_does#Post4389454


Last edited by MolaKule; 07/23/17 03:32 PM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468193
07/23/17 04:01 PM
07/23/17 04:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
I have a hard time trusting the universal stuff too.
That's why I spend the extra time and money to get the manufacturer specific stuff - I don't want to take that chance.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: L_Sludger] #4468197
07/23/17 04:06 PM
07/23/17 04:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I have a hard time trusting the universal stuff too.
That's why I spend the extra time and money to get the manufacturer specific stuff - I don't want to take that chance.


We have choices here and I have never seen a bottle of Valvoline MaxLife move off the shelves and twist anyone's arm.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468199
07/23/17 04:07 PM
07/23/17 04:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
I went with motorcraft Mercon LV for my drain and fill. Before that it had the maxlife multi LV fluid and it ran fine, but now the little voice is quiet because I know the ford specified fluid is in there


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468216
07/23/17 04:32 PM
07/23/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,459
CA
user52165 Offline
user52165  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,459
CA
Originally Posted By: tig1
I am at the point where I don't really trust an ATF that meets many differenty spec's, for several different makes.


Based on what evidence?

Or just "feelings"?

Re: ATF that meets many spec's: How can it? [Re: tig1] #4468245
07/23/17 04:58 PM
07/23/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline
merconvvv  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Motorcraft atf is pretty cheap.
Thats what i use in the expedition drain and fill. About 4 or 5 drains and fill.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
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