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Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? #4467942
07/23/17 11:33 AM
07/23/17 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
leroyd92 Offline OP
leroyd92  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
Would it be worth removing the current ( up to date) smog on a crate 454 motorhome?

Would i gain slight fuel economy ? Or power?

We have plans to pull a 6klb boat/ trailer once in a while.


Supertech Junky
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4467948
07/23/17 11:42 AM
07/23/17 11:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Indiana
nascarnation Offline
nascarnation  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Indiana
What generation of "smog" controls do you have?

Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4467961
07/23/17 12:04 PM
07/23/17 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
leroyd92 Offline OP
leroyd92  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
Whoops.... Most important part of question.

1982.

So i have the air pump,egr charcoal canister. And whatever else i can't remember @ the moment.


Supertech Junky
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4467971
07/23/17 12:19 PM
07/23/17 12:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: leroyd92
Whoops.... Most important part of question.

1982.

So i have the air pump, egr, charcoal canister. And whatever else i can't remember @ the moment.


None of these really hurt your power. EGR actually helps with part throttle fuel economy.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468031
07/23/17 01:39 PM
07/23/17 01:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,899
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
JimPghPA Offline
JimPghPA  Offline
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Posts: 3,899
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
If the air pump is not working properly then the oxygen sensor in the exhaust will see the wrong information and the engine will not run properly. Do not remove the air pump. If you do you will mess up the way the engine runs.

My 1985 Olds 88 has an air pump. The pipe to one of the exhaust sides rusted out and was leaking the pumped air out before it got to the exhaust. The oxygen sensor was seeing the wrong information and the engine would not idle properly. Fixed the pipe between the air pump and the exhaust and the engine now runs and idles properly.


Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa

Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468186
07/23/17 04:53 PM
07/23/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: leroyd92
Would it be worth removing the current ( up to date) smog on a crate 454 motorhome?

Would i gain slight fuel economy ? Or power?

We have plans to pull a 6klb boat/ trailer once in a while.

I would not do it personally. Messing with smog equipment is a federal beef, and big vehicles like that get more scrutiny than passenger cars.

IOW, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468206
07/23/17 05:17 PM
07/23/17 05:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
I would leave it alone unless it's malfunctioning. You'd have to reprogram the ecu to get any benefits. Go with low restriction mufflers instead.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468224
07/23/17 05:37 PM
07/23/17 05:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
I don't think the heavy duty 454's in 1982 had any electronics... the small blocks had "ESC" (elec spark control) but I don't recall seeing any '82 big blocks with it.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468240
07/23/17 05:53 PM
07/23/17 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
leroyd92 Offline OP
leroyd92  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 500
AZ
There's no sensors nor computers...

I personally don't wanna mess with it. But if there's mountains to gain id be open to the idea


Supertech Junky
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468256
07/23/17 06:04 PM
07/23/17 06:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,420
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Online content
Cujet  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,420
Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: leroyd92
There's no sensors nor computers...

I personally don't wanna mess with it. But if there's mountains to gain id be open to the idea


Many of those engines were down on power, not because of the bolted on emission controls, but because of the internal design. Cam timing, valve lift, and duration were all extremely conservative. The compression ratio was also very low. In addition, the valve sizes and port sizes conspire to limit output.

However, if you have one of the old style catalytic converters on it, and small, single exhaust/muffler, they are quite restrictive.

For a while, owners of these were installing free flowing exhausts and the aftermarket throttle body fuel injection systems. That did help the power and MPG, plus eliminated the hot start issues some of them had.

EDIT: Those in the know, replaced those engines with the marine versions that produced 400HP stock.

Last edited by Cujet; 07/23/17 06:05 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468274
07/23/17 06:26 PM
07/23/17 06:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,341
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,341
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Replace all the vacuum hoses. Those cause the most trouble on engines of that era. Headers and duel exhaust will help too.

Last edited by Chris142; 07/23/17 06:26 PM.

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Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: JimPghPA] #4468279
07/23/17 06:29 PM
07/23/17 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,177
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,177
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
If the air pump is not working properly then the oxygen sensor in the exhaust will see the wrong information and the engine will not run properly. Do not remove the air pump. If you do you will mess up the way the engine runs.

My 1985 Olds 88 has an air pump. The pipe to one of the exhaust sides rusted out and was leaking the pumped air out before it got to the exhaust. The oxygen sensor was seeing the wrong information and the engine would not idle properly. Fixed the pipe between the air pump and the exhaust and the engine now runs and idles properly.


A.I.R only pumps air into the exhaust during "Open Loop" operation, With an old system like yours with a non-heated O2 sensor was any time the engine is cold or idling.....This is also why the system has Diverter Valve/s to divert the air away from the manifold.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468301
07/23/17 07:12 PM
07/23/17 07:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,177
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,177
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: leroyd92
There's no sensors nor computers...

I personally don't wanna mess with it. But if there's mountains to gain id be open to the idea


You answered your own question!
However if you really wanted to do some tuning.....There is probably alot on the table for that engine even if it's a low compression variant. It's just a ton of work on a carbureted engine.

If it was mine, I would.......
Rip all the A.I.R system off & plug the ports on the manifolds, It creates exhaust heat & that is the last thing you need!
Dual 2 1/2" pipes into Flowmaster Big Block II mufflers, Have a O2 bung welded on each side as close to the manifolds as possible with plugs.
Buy a Wide Band Sensor & monitor (Probably lost you right there because the price)
I would plug the EGR because it will plug itself eventually.....Then you have way to much timing!

Re-Curve your distributor! This is where the most gains come from!
On this engine without EGR.....34-36 degrees total mechanical all in by 2500-2800. Plus 10 degrees vacuum advance hooked to Manifold Vacuum, You will need to limit your existing vacuum advance or buy a adjustable one.
I don't worry much about initial timing as long as the starter don't kick on hot re-starts....I like around 10-12 degrees.

Then use the Wide Band to "Jet" the carburetor (Jets & Metering Rods on a Q-Jet) to achieve as close to 14.7:1 AFR during cruise situations as you can, WOT & High Load will be richer because the accelerator pump & Secondary enrichment circuit.

You will probably need to set/adjust the Secondary Air Valve opening rate which can be tedious....But will eliminate the BOG associated with most Q-Jet carburetors.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468524
07/23/17 11:29 PM
07/23/17 11:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,372
CA
user52165 Offline
user52165  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,372
CA
Exactly which crate engine is this?

Wide variety of 454 from mild to wild.

Last edited by user52165; 07/23/17 11:32 PM.
Re: Worth reremong UP TO DATE smog on 454 motorhome ? [Re: leroyd92] #4468623
07/24/17 06:27 AM
07/24/17 06:27 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,363
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,363
Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'd have a set of long tubes on that thing by yesterday. That's what's really going to open things up.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
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