New S&W M&P 9mm Shield after 300 rounds

[billt460]

I have to admit I've never bought or shot a single round of this stuff. Not because I had read so much bad about it. But because there always seemed to be other brands either more plentiful, or cheaper. S&B, Magtech, Geco, Remington, PMC, and so forth. All of which ran well. I know Federal Champion, (which I've fired thousands of rounds of), say's right on the box, "For Practice Only... Not For Duty Use", or some such. Pretty much admitting it's not up to the standard of American Eagle, and the rest of their FMJ Ball stuff. It has always ran good for me. The only complaint I have with it is that it's dirty. But I completely field strip and clean after each range session. So it never really mattered. I can't count the cases of that stuff I bought for under $9.00 @ box over the years. I've got orange 5 gallon Home Depot buckets full of the brass. But now that I think about it, I haven't seen brass cased Federal Champion for sale in a long time. The Aluminum stuff is everywhere.

 

[sdude2k2000]

I'm definitely NOT a fan of WWB myself. I too find it to be extremely dirty ammo to run... lots of fouling. My guns all cycle it fine (I too have a Shield in my arsenal), but I quit buying it some time ago. Every now and again I'll run it if it's what me and my buddies have while we're out, but otherwise I avoid. If you're looking to buy at a local store - I'd pick Federal (American Eagle preferably) before I'd pick Winchester. But if you really want a good experience - I firmly believe Freedom Munitions makes the best plinking ammo out there! Their new mfr rounds are amazing... clean - accurate - and priced better than WWB in my neck of the woods (even with shipping costs). That's all I buy now for my plinking needs.

 

[L_Sludger]

WWB is fine ammo for what it is: ammo to train for.
If it malfunctions, do a clearing drill.

 

[bubbatime]

As someone that has broken in at least 100 new pistols, my honest advice is to shoot hot ammo through any new gun for the first 200 rounds. That means buying made in Europe ammo, or NATO spec 9mm (plus P) or plus P ammo.

A hot European spec ammo that goes 50 to 100 feet per second faster than downloaded American ammo works wonders at breaking in guns.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
.......A hot European spec ammo that goes 50 to 100 feet per second faster than downloaded American ammo works wonders at breaking in guns.


This is good advice. Scroll about halfway down the page on this link until you come to the 9MM 124 Grain Nato Round Mfg. By Sellier & Bellot 1000 Round Case for $209.00 a case. (Green colored primer sealer). This ammo is a bit hard to come by through most on line ammo suppliers. I've shot a few cases of it, and you can easily notice that it shoots with a lot more "snap", over most of the other 9 MM NATO loads. The Europeans like hot 9 MM.

https://www.unammo.com/#Handgun

 

[L_Sludger]

I don't want to get slapped for this, but here goes anyway.
Not all pistols can take the rigors of overpressure ammunition. So please make sure your gun can handle +P before you put it into the chamber.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
This is also why, for example, the Federal 9BPLE ( 9m/m 115gr +P+ ) and other +P+ marked loads have been quasi restricted for law enforcement and military use - because it kinda sorta relieves them of some liability when you stuff it into some Egyptian clone of the Beretta and beat it to death.

That 9BPLE is something else. Its muzzle energy is measured in megatons. A magazine full of them is like having an Ohio class SSBN in your pocket.

 

[bsmithwins]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
This is also why, for example, the Federal 9BPLE ( 9m/m 115gr +P+ ) and other +P+ marked loads have been quasi restricted for law enforcement and military use - because it kinda sorta relieves them of some liability when you stuff it into some Egyptian clone of the Beretta and beat it to death.

That 9BPLE is something else. Its muzzle energy is measured in megatons. A magazine full of them is like having an Ohio class SSBN in your pocket.


That is some hot ammo and has been one of my standard carry loads for years. I wouldn't shoot it out of anything made before WWII*, just on general principals.

BSW

*Also including some of the late war German guns.

 

[gman2304]

My new Shield owners manual says... 'the +P ammo generates pressures in excess of the pressures of standard ammo. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety' and may result in the need for more frequent service'. Also, "+p+ must not be used in S&W firearms". I bought 50 rounds of Federal 115 grain brass at WM for $9 today to see if it likes the Federal. I think I'm done with the WWB.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
.....Also, "+p+ must not be used in S&W firearms".


That sends up a red flag right there. CZ and several other manufacturers do not have that warning.

 

[HouseTiger]

[/quote]That 9BPLE is something else. Its muzzle energy is measured in megatons. A magazine full of them is like having an Ohio class SSBN in your pocket.[/quote]


I talked to the Federal ammo guys at the NRA meeting in April, and showed them my duty load - the trusty 9BPLE. They smiled and admitted it's one of the best defensive loads they produce for the 9m/m.

Their technical department in Anoka advised me of the pressure guidelines their 9m/m ammo is loaded to. The standard 9m/m stuff is at the American 'standard' 35,000psi. The +P is loaded to SAAMI 38,500 psi (pretty much where NATO loads it). There is no SAAMI for +P+, but the 9BPLE is loaded to 40,000 psi.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: gman2304
.....Also, "+p+ must not be used in S&W firearms".


That sends up a red flag right there. CZ and several other manufacturers do not have that warning.
At least they have a warning.
I know that the Saturday night special brands like Bryco, Jimenez, Lorcin, etc are an absolute no-go as far as 9 mil overpressure loads go.
Hi-Point, I would not run overpressure rounds on because they are blowback action.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
At least they have a warning.
I know that the Saturday night special brands like Bryco, Jimenez, Lorcin, etc are an absolute no-go as far as 9 mil overpressure loads go.
Hi-Point, I would not run overpressure rounds on because they are blowback action.


I can't imagine anyone with any sense using ANY of those die cast, junk guns for self defense.... Regardless of the ammo in them.

 

[Ryan]

I too, about had it with my Shield 9mm. The first few times I shot WWB through it, I had a lot of stovepipes. I recently put the Magguts on my 7 round mag and shot it last Thursday. Everything about the gun feels better and I had no jamming issues. I guess for me maybe it was being able to get a better grip with the 1/4" longer baseplate. I have about 600 rounds left of WWB, then I break into my 1000 round stash of Speer 124 grain ball. I think that will yield better results than WWB.

 

[gman2304]

Since ditching the WWB, I've been shooting Blazer Brass, Freedom Munitions and Federal, all 115 grain flavor. I shot about 100 rounds today, and about 400 total since ditching the WWB with not a single problem. In all fairness to WWB, the Shield was new and could have been tight, and the WWB might have helped breaking it in...IDK.

 

[buck91]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
The first 200 rounds were the Winchester white box FMJ 115 grain. I'm ready to ship this defective [removed] back to S&W! Failing to eject, failing to fire, stovepipes, you name it! I tried 3 different magazines with the same results. This pistol is field stripped and cleaned after each range visit. My friend who owns the range and 2 of his employees said to send it back. It acted the same way when they fired it, and everybody critiqued the ones shooting..and no 'limp wristing' was going on, so I decided yesterday to send it back. But before I left the range, I decided to buy a box of Freedom munitions 9mm 115 grain reload bullets. It fired 50 rounds perfectly! I tried 50 rounds of Blazerbrass today with not a single hiccup. I guess this pistol just doesn't like the Winchester WB ammo. Has Winchester had some QC issues lately, because I had a problem with at least 1 bullet in almost every magazine I used.



As others have mentioned, WWB has caused me problems as well. My G23 gen 4 chews through ANYTHING I feed it... except WWB. I literally get either a dud or a failure to eject or a failure to feed at LEAST once per MAG. Can't recall any misfires or problems with other loads. Blazer Brass or whatever else is cheapest is fine, just don't give me none of that WWB. Just worthless.

 

[L_Sludger]

I got a case of this stuff from AIM. It's really nice stuff. At the time I bought it, it was cheap, price about on par with WWB. The ammo is almost too nice to shoot. Made in Switzerland.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/geco/1000-...d-geco-magnetic

 

[HouseTiger]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
Also, "+p+ must not be used in S&W firearms".



That's been the standard lawyer line from S&W forever.

We were told that in the early 1970s about the then brand new stainless combat masterpiece (M67) yet Remington loaded an LE only load that pushed a 125 grain JHP at about 1250 fps (supposedly rated at today's +P+). A few years later and different agency, and I was able to carry real .357 Magnum rounds in the Model 66 - the Federal 125 grain JHP magnum round. Then the transition to the S&W 5906 and we used the Federal Treasury load. The gun just shucked through them without a glitch.

There's many a police trade in metal frame S&W auto that ran plenty of +P and +P+ through them. My wife 'inherited' my off duty 3913 in the late 90s after transitioning to Glock 9m/ms. She carries the same 9BPLE load I do, and she shoots her two magazines out every 6 months when I stuff fresh food in 'em. The gun is still tight as a drum after over 6500 rounds of mixed regular, +P and +P+ stuff.

Alas, then there's the Federal 357B load - 125 JHP .357 Magnum . . . oh yeah.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Always going to be handgun owners that do not obey the pressure guidelines of their guns.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Always going to be handgun owners that do not obey the pressure guidelines of their guns.


What "guidelines"? A gun can either handle +P, or else it can't. I do not own a semi auto, 9 MM pistol that say's anywhere in the manual not to use +P ammunition. And I own many. Even small pocket pistols that advise against it's use, will still function OK if it's used in limited quantities.... And there is no such thing as "+P+". SAAMI doesn't even recognize it. The designation was basically made up as a sales gimmick by ammunition manufacturers, so people would interpret it as "more powerful than +P". Ammunition manufacturers are not going to knowingly sell ammunition that is dangerous. Not to cops, or the general public.

This is all based on common sense. In most cases it's perfectly safe to use on a limited bases. Not by the case full. Which few people do anyway because of it's cost and limited availability. Even then about all you would see is accelerated wear. Not a catastrophic dismemberment of the weapon. Some of this ammunition has limited sales to law enforcement. And is not sold in high quantity to the general public. That's why much of it is hard to find, and somewhat expensive when you do. That in itself does not make it dangerous. Police weapons are constructed no differently from a strength standpoint, than the same models offered for civilian sales.