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Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations #4466862
07/22/17 05:08 AM
07/22/17 05:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
Shannow Offline OP
Shannow  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,860
'Stralia
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a285399.pdf

Centred around lubrication of an extremely high temperature operating diesel engine (adiabatic approach), with a bunch of mineral and synthetic lubricants.

It's sort of a holy grail paper for the discussions on BITOG at the present time.

Has wear of new and used oils
Discussion on what goes on in ring belt areas.
"Wear" metals versus coupon corrosion for coupons submerged in oils of various ages.

Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4466906
07/22/17 08:00 AM
07/22/17 08:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,529
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,529
Central Maryland
... if the present time is the 1990's.

I see one mention of Lubrizol for the experimental oils... can't find a mention of the brands/types of commercial oils.

"Best" Oil D was an experimental synthetic 30 grade that lasted longest, still good to go at 200 hours, while C was an experimental synthetic 40 grade that lasted only 100 hours. Which means there is much more going on there than just the oil weight.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4466924
07/22/17 08:20 AM
07/22/17 08:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Shannow

It's sort of a holy grail paper for the discussions on BITOG at the present time.


Please explain how you came to this conclusion.

Quote: "The following engine oil deficiencies were observed when operating at 316 to 343C (600F to 650F) average cylinder wall temperature (CWT)"

My cylinder walls, in any of my engines, never get close to this temperature. I'm not sure how they attained that using typical water jackets... maybe they weren't using coolant, or coolant under extremely high pressure to prevent boiling away.

Overall, I feel their experiment was relevant to a VERY high heat engine, but I couldn't duplicate their tests with any of the engines I currently own.

Last edited by Linctex; 07/22/17 08:24 AM.

"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4466935
07/22/17 08:36 AM
07/22/17 08:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
OK, so I see they isolated the cylinder liner so it sees no coolant (only the head does).

There's no mention of any crankcase breather or what they did with oil vapors.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4467024
07/22/17 10:27 AM
07/22/17 10:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
down in the park
Jetronic Offline
Jetronic  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
down in the park
The abstract mentions 247C cilinder wall temperature, and 166C bulk oil temperature. Not as excessive as you'd think, as this is the cilinder wall temperature on the oil side. Any car running a waterless coolant could easily reach those cilinder wall temperatures. The coolant in my car boils at 130C, the cilinder wall will be warmer than that on the coolant side.

the higher temperatures mentioned were from a previous experiment. Nbr 7 and 14 in the reference list on the table p79


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4467071
07/22/17 11:20 AM
07/22/17 11:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
down in the park
Jetronic Offline
Jetronic  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
down in the park
I really like Oil C in that test, so far as I have read by now (page 41). 15w30 fully synthetic commercially available diesel oil, Any guesses which it could have been in 1992-3?


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Re: Mil paper - high temperature lubricant evaluations [Re: Shannow] #4467229
07/22/17 03:09 PM
07/22/17 03:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,849
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,849
Kalifornia Kollective
Could be old air cooled tank engine, or Deutch air cooled diesel gen sets/pumps, or many other applications where Army does not want failure by loss of cooling water ...

Air cooled diesels operating in the middle east must get very hot ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 07/22/17 03:10 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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