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#4466484 - 07/21/17 06:04 PM Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands...
Daverino Offline


Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 19
Loc: Texas
A Brand New Perspective. Digging Into the Timeless Question, “Which Oil is Better?”

Blackstone looks into its collection of oil sample data to examine the question of which brand of oil is better.


https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/July-1-2017.php


I found a this very interesting article and worth the time to read, and I thought that some of you guys might as well.
_________________________
"Daverino has the direct Bat Phone line." -georgemiller

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#4466495 - 07/21/17 06:14 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
Daverino Offline


Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 19
Loc: Texas
Years ago I remember reading an article from Consumer Reports where they had done a test of different brands of motor oil on NYC taxis. They found similar results if I remember correctly and the conclusion was to get your oil changed with whatever brand is cheaper and meets specs. That was the first scientific article I read about motor oil and it is funny that this article by a major oil lab has come to the same conclusion years later.

The one thing that the article did not mention was the type of driving done by different types of oil buyers. I would be willing to bet that there is a correlation with the average Amsoil buyer and the type of driver who drives more miles at one time. People who have long commutes and spend more time in their vehicle might be more likely to want an oil that can extend their oil change interval. And I think that it is pretty well agreed that longer driving at one time (fewer heat cycles) is easier on an engine. Just a thought.
_________________________
"Daverino has the direct Bat Phone line." -georgemiller

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#4466505 - 07/21/17 06:22 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
SirTanon Offline


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1992
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona - USA
LOL.. that conversation he mentions with the customer.. I know I can't be the only one whose first thought when reading it was "Was this conversation with Engineer20?"

Excerpt:

Him: “So, I’m using Rotella in this engine... is that the best choice?”
Me: “It certainly seems to be doing a good job. You’d
probably get good results with whatever oil you used,
but this is working fine.”
Him: “Would I be better off if I switched to Mobil 1?”
Me: “Well, you could, but I wouldn’t expect much change in
engine wear. We find that the type of oil typically
doesn’t matter when it comes to wear metals.”
Him: “What about Amsoil? I’ve heard
that’s the best oil out there.”
Me: “That’s a good brand as well. We just don’t tend
to see much difference in wear metals between different
oil types, so whichever one you want to use is fine.”
Him: “Okay, but what about that new Pennzoil Ultra stuf
f? I’ve heard that’s a much better product. Is that
better than Amsoil, or not?”
Me: [sigh...]
_________________________
2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 253,000mi
2014 Nissan Altima SL - 2.5 liter/CVT - 52,000mi

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#4466512 - 07/21/17 06:30 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 4672
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Lol. Yeah, I used to stick with M1 but now i use whatever is on liquidation at autozone. Im good for 2-3 years now...but need to stop hoarding during sales. LOL
_________________________
2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967


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#4466516 - 07/21/17 06:39 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
oil_film_movies Online   content


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2274
Loc: MN
Nice study of wear metals, so I guess it answers the question that all oils are about equal (enough equal) to each other in that department.

I think user SonofJoe said one time, and I've been saying, its how clean your ring pack area, pistons, are that could be more different.
Not saying we all could get stuck rings, yet extra oil consumption due to a gummy ring pack later in life has occurred for some engines.

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#4466525 - 07/21/17 06:46 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
AirgunSavant Offline


Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 3688
Loc: MD
We have heard this before. So it rings true. Nice article. Thanks!!!

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#4466582 - 07/21/17 07:41 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
TTK Offline


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 540
Loc: TN
Okay, the final word is "Motor oil is motor oil". Now BITOG can be shut down.
_________________________
2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Mobil 1 0w-40
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30


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#4466622 - 07/21/17 08:18 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5724
Loc: Waco, TX
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4466628 - 07/21/17 08:21 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Linctex]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 18964
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."


For what engine component?
_________________________
Hatito Hakiwisilaasamamo Waswasimamo Howisiwapani - Shawnee for: "Hello," "Good Morning," and "here's hoping you feel good." smile

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#4466712 - 07/21/17 09:30 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: MolaKule]
69GTX Offline


Registered: 09/23/15
Posts: 3742
Loc: Connecticut
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."


For what engine component?


Apparently, wherever Iron comes from. Even though they're looking at Al, Cr, Fe, Cu, and Pb...it's only Fe that is being considered a standalone proxy for wear rates. If you look at that very last UOA with sky high Al, it's pretty clear other things can wear to near failure with Fe being normal.

In looking at those various tests I'd say it was a pretty clear case where Amsoil in the gas-PCMO's seemed to easily lead the pack. And that could be mostly from the long OCI's vs. the claim that FULL synthetic PAO oils (like Amsoil) have 4X to 7X the fluid shear strength than Group 1,2,3 oils. Amsoil didn't do near as well in the TDI diesel vehicles.
_________________________
----------------

2002 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 81K mi /PPlat 5w30/FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs

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#4466769 - 07/21/17 10:34 PM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: MolaKule]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5724
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:
the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)


For what engine component?


umm... anything iron based?
"the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)"
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4466816 - 07/22/17 12:08 AM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Linctex]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1915
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:
the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)


For what engine component?


umm... anything iron based?
"the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)"


Like the head, crankshaft counterweights, block, or oil pan? You know, all those iron and steel components that the oil is in contact with but are not wear surfaces.

First rule of analytical chemistry: If you're going to analyze the sample for iron, don't store it in an iron bottle.

UOA can't distinguish between wear and other mechanisms, such as oxidation of non wear surfaces. Is that copper in your UOA from wear of bearings or bushings, or is the oil picking up copper from a copper oil cooler? Is some wear and some chelation from the oil cooler? How much from each source? Sorry, UOA can't tell you.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#4466835 - 07/22/17 01:47 AM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39055
Loc: 'Stralia
edhackett, yes, so true...

I'm going to use your iron bottle analogy into the future...that's exactly it.

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#4466863 - 07/22/17 05:08 AM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
NGRhodes Offline


Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 284
Loc: West Yorkshire, UK
Would of been interesting to see some results against cheap/budget oils, e.g. supermarket own brand oils; when I saw a photo of the budget oil in the start of the, I was hoping to see such an oil in the results somewhere, maybe not a significant enough sample set for a useful comparision.

If a car/engine recommends a certain spec oil and the oil meets that spec, to me it no surprise there is no wear issues for normal usage, normal change intervals.

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#4466880 - 07/22/17 06:31 AM Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino]
gfh77665 Offline


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 3744
Loc: Southeast Texas
Want better protection? Forget the brands...just use a slightly higher viscosity. Ford just nailed this down.

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