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Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... #4466484
07/21/17 06:04 PM
07/21/17 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Texas
Daverino Offline OP
Daverino  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Texas
A Brand New Perspective. Digging Into the Timeless Question, “Which Oil is Better?”

Blackstone looks into its collection of oil sample data to examine the question of which brand of oil is better.


https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/July-1-2017.php


I found a this very interesting article and worth the time to read, and I thought that some of you guys might as well.


"Daverino has the direct Bat Phone line." -georgemiller
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466495
07/21/17 06:14 PM
07/21/17 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Texas
Daverino Offline OP
Daverino  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Texas
Years ago I remember reading an article from Consumer Reports where they had done a test of different brands of motor oil on NYC taxis. They found similar results if I remember correctly and the conclusion was to get your oil changed with whatever brand is cheaper and meets specs. That was the first scientific article I read about motor oil and it is funny that this article by a major oil lab has come to the same conclusion years later.

The one thing that the article did not mention was the type of driving done by different types of oil buyers. I would be willing to bet that there is a correlation with the average Amsoil buyer and the type of driver who drives more miles at one time. People who have long commutes and spend more time in their vehicle might be more likely to want an oil that can extend their oil change interval. And I think that it is pretty well agreed that longer driving at one time (fewer heat cycles) is easier on an engine. Just a thought.


"Daverino has the direct Bat Phone line." -georgemiller
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466505
07/21/17 06:22 PM
07/21/17 06:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,453
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
SirTanon Offline
SirTanon  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,453
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
LOL.. that conversation he mentions with the customer.. I know I can't be the only one whose first thought when reading it was "Was this conversation with Engineer20?"

Excerpt:

Him: “So, I’m using Rotella in this engine... is that the best choice?”
Me: “It certainly seems to be doing a good job. You’d
probably get good results with whatever oil you used,
but this is working fine.”
Him: “Would I be better off if I switched to Mobil 1?”
Me: “Well, you could, but I wouldn’t expect much change in
engine wear. We find that the type of oil typically
doesn’t matter when it comes to wear metals.”
Him: “What about Amsoil? I’ve heard
that’s the best oil out there.”
Me: “That’s a good brand as well. We just don’t tend
to see much difference in wear metals between different
oil types, so whichever one you want to use is fine.”
Him: “Okay, but what about that new Pennzoil Ultra stuf
f? I’ve heard that’s a much better product. Is that
better than Amsoil, or not?”
Me: [sigh...]


2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 262,000mi
2014 Nissan Altima SL - 2.5 liter/CVT - 57,000mi
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466512
07/21/17 06:30 PM
07/21/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,857
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,857
MTL, CANADA
Lol. Yeah, I used to stick with M1 but now i use whatever is on liquidation at autozone. Im good for 2-3 years now...but need to stop hoarding during sales. LOL


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466516
07/21/17 06:39 PM
07/21/17 06:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,990
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,990
MN
Nice study of wear metals, so I guess it answers the question that all oils are about equal (enough equal) to each other in that department.

I think user SonofJoe said one time, and I've been saying, its how clean your ring pack area, pistons, are that could be more different.
Not saying we all could get stuck rings, yet extra oil consumption due to a gummy ring pack later in life has occurred for some engines.

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466525
07/21/17 06:46 PM
07/21/17 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
AirgunSavant Offline
AirgunSavant  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,772
MD
We have heard this before. So it rings true. Nice article. Thanks!!!

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466582
07/21/17 07:41 PM
07/21/17 07:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 577
TN
TTK Offline
TTK  Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 577
TN
Okay, the final word is "Motor oil is motor oil". Now BITOG can be shut down.


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466622
07/21/17 08:18 PM
07/21/17 08:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Linctex] #4466628
07/21/17 08:21 PM
07/21/17 08:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,235
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,235
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."


For what engine component?


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: MolaKule] #4466712
07/21/17 09:30 PM
07/21/17 09:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:

"This got us curious, so this time, when creating the bar graph for the iron
wear-rate (Fig. 9), we put them in order of average oil interval, and
wouldn’t ya know it, there’s a pretty clear correlation: the longer the oil
is in use, the lower the wear rate
."


For what engine component?


Apparently, wherever Iron comes from. Even though they're looking at Al, Cr, Fe, Cu, and Pb...it's only Fe that is being considered a standalone proxy for wear rates. If you look at that very last UOA with sky high Al, it's pretty clear other things can wear to near failure with Fe being normal.

In looking at those various tests I'd say it was a pretty clear case where Amsoil in the gas-PCMO's seemed to easily lead the pack. And that could be mostly from the long OCI's vs. the claim that FULL synthetic PAO oils (like Amsoil) have 4X to 7X the fluid shear strength than Group 1,2,3 oils. Amsoil didn't do near as well in the TDI diesel vehicles.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: MolaKule] #4466769
07/21/17 10:34 PM
07/21/17 10:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,232
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:
the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)


For what engine component?


umm... anything iron based?
"the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)"


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Linctex] #4466816
07/22/17 12:08 AM
07/22/17 12:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,950
Sequim, WA
edhackett Offline
edhackett  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,950
Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Interesting quote:
the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)


For what engine component?


umm... anything iron based?
"the bar graph for the iron wear-rate (Fig. 9)"


Like the head, crankshaft counterweights, block, or oil pan? You know, all those iron and steel components that the oil is in contact with but are not wear surfaces.

First rule of analytical chemistry: If you're going to analyze the sample for iron, don't store it in an iron bottle.

UOA can't distinguish between wear and other mechanisms, such as oxidation of non wear surfaces. Is that copper in your UOA from wear of bearings or bushings, or is the oil picking up copper from a copper oil cooler? Is some wear and some chelation from the oil cooler? How much from each source? Sorry, UOA can't tell you.

Ed


Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.
Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466835
07/22/17 01:47 AM
07/22/17 01:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
edhackett, yes, so true...

I'm going to use your iron bottle analogy into the future...that's exactly it.

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466863
07/22/17 05:08 AM
07/22/17 05:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354
West Yorkshire, UK
NGRhodes Online content
NGRhodes  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354
West Yorkshire, UK
Would of been interesting to see some results against cheap/budget oils, e.g. supermarket own brand oils; when I saw a photo of the budget oil in the start of the, I was hoping to see such an oil in the results somewhere, maybe not a significant enough sample set for a useful comparision.

If a car/engine recommends a certain spec oil and the oil meets that spec, to me it no surprise there is no wear issues for normal usage, normal change intervals.

Re: Which Oil is Better? Blackstone looks at brands... [Re: Daverino] #4466880
07/22/17 06:31 AM
07/22/17 06:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,891
Southeast Texas
gfh77665 Offline
gfh77665  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,891
Southeast Texas
Want better protection? Forget the brands...just use a slightly higher viscosity. Ford just nailed this down.

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