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#4465518 - 07/20/17 09:26 PM Rotella no longer gas engine rated?
wwillson Online   content

Administrator


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2161
Loc: Naperville, IL
This is post made by the Rotella Team (BITOG user ChrisGuerrero) in the "Motorcycles, Boating, Small Engine, Aviation, Power Sports" forum as an answer to the question in the subject. I've also posted the answer here so that more of us can see Chris's response.

Quote:
Previously, heavy duty engine oil marketers could claim an API gasoline performance standard on their products if they met CJ-4 and the required performance tests for gasoline standards. Additionally, a waiver was granted for claims of API gasoline performance in cases where products did not meet the chemical restrictions for gasoline specifications (specifically phosphorous limits required for SN).

The recommended viscosity grades for modern gasoline engines are XW-20s and XW-30s. As such, this waiver process is being phased out. Heavy duty engine oils which are XW-30s (and which claim API CK-4 approval) cannot also claim API gasoline standards unless they meet the current phosphorous requirements/limits. The new fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 is one such product that meets the performance requirements of API CK-4 as well as API SN and is formulated with 800 parts per million of phosphorous, which meets the API SN requirements.

While the industry waiver is still currently in existence for heavy duty engine oils that are XW-40’s, this remains in discussion to be addressed by the API in the near future. However, the Shell ROTELLA® brand has made the decision to remove API SN claims, regardless of viscosity, from our other products which do not meet the preferred low-phosphorous chemistry for gasoline engines. It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA® products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team

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#4465523 - 07/20/17 09:29 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8662
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: wwillson
This is post made by the Rotella Team (BITOG user ChrisGuerrero) It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA® products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team



Thanks for posting that explanation Wayne!

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#4465564 - 07/20/17 10:10 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2968
Loc: USA
This is good news to me!

Thank you SOPUS for making a great diesel oil that us motorcycle owners can find readily at any store and has proven to be stout!

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#4465583 - 07/20/17 10:24 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
Dyusik Offline


Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 1982
Loc: US-WA
JASO MA is fit for use in gassers, having a pre requisite of api/acea/ilsac, so since they claimed that MA was ok, I never believed the claim that it was diesel only. But is reformulated, and is friendlier to catcons than the previous gas certified version. That's why I wouldn't want it over CJ/CI.
_________________________
95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30,XG8
07 IS250 97K FB ?w??,FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40,XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 18K 76 20w50,1515
14 RX450h 30k PP 0w20,NAPAG

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#4465617 - 07/20/17 11:03 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5518
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4465632 - 07/20/17 11:16 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 4857
Loc: Houston, Texas
So when are we going to see diesel only shell rotella? Doesn't the CK-4 formula still have reduced ZDDP compared to CJ-4 or is that only because they made it SN certified?

I'll switch over to shell rotella from now on then. Maybe they realized how many people would buy it if they got rid of the gas certification.


Edited by motor_oil_madman (07/20/17 11:16 PM)
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#4465709 - 07/21/17 02:51 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: BrocLuno]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh


I agree, MA covers you for a petrol / gas engine.

Why don't they start claiming something like a Euro A3/B3 spec with less restrictions on Phos and avoid the API Sx thing altogether ?
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4465857 - 07/21/17 08:09 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2968
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
So when are we going to see diesel only shell rotella? Doesn't the CK-4 formula still have reduced ZDDP compared to CJ-4 or is that only because they made it SN certified?

I'll switch over to shell rotella from now on then. Maybe they realized how many people would buy it if they got rid of the gas certification.


CK-4 does not limit ZDDP. I know for certain that the T4 15W40 CK4 is just as stout as the old CJ-4 stuff.

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#4465885 - 07/21/17 08:38 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7671
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
My reading of it is that the CK-4/SN 30 weight Rotella might not be the greatest oil to use in a diesel either, 800 PPM phosphorus is weak! 40 weight is probably still 1000-1200 PPM, it's likely OK.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4465921 - 07/21/17 09:15 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
Building3 Offline


Registered: 04/30/17
Posts: 84
Loc: Michigan
Chris: some of us here use the Shell Rotella (for instance I use T4) in our classic and muscle cars which need higher levels of zinc and phosphorous. So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level? Thanks for the clarification.

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#4465994 - 07/21/17 10:16 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: BrocLuno]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24586
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh

Ed Hackett and I said much the same thing. If it's E7, E9 now and was E7, E9 before, and we weren't worried about using it in a gasser then, we really shouldn't now, unless we're hung up on a specific new car warranty requirement, and there aren't a lot of vehicles calling for 5w-40 in SM or SM, with nothing beyond that.

Of course, API gasoline certification or even simply claims to be "suitable for" can be helpful. Someone wouldn't want to put a locomotive oil or certain marine lubes in a gasser, but those won't be E7, E9 or anything like that.

This is one time I wish the oil companies would adopt the "suitable for use" wording, but I don't think they'll be jumping on that, given that the big three all have a 5w-40 in SN already, with varying degrees of availability and convenience.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4466062 - 07/21/17 11:34 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: Building3]
jeff78 Offline


Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 129
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Building3
So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level?


He's saying only the Rotellas certified for SN have the lower level of phosphorous - and as of now that's only the 5W-30 T6 Multi-Vehicle. The 5W-40 T6 has the higher level.

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#4466454 - 07/21/17 05:34 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: jeff78]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 3012
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: jeff78
Originally Posted By: Building3
So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level?

He's saying only the Rotellas certified for SN have the lower level of phosphorous - and as of now that's only the 5W-30 T6 Multi-Vehicle. The 5W-40 T6 has the higher level.

CK-4 and CJ-4 have the same limits on P, S, and SA. CK-4 is just CJ-4 with stricter limits and more modern tests on engine protection.

xW-40 and thicker is exempt from P limits for SM and SN.

So, that's not the reason.

They probably figured out that it was not worth spending money on all the additional SN tests for gasoline engines on an oil made and intended for HD diesel engines, as few people use such thick oils in their cars these days anyways.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 270,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN synthetic
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#4466980 - 07/22/17 09:35 AM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: Gokhan]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15699
Loc: OH
Or maybe they figured out that the faithful old BMW, Mercedes and turbo Subie users have enough savvy to look beyond the absence of an API S license in judging the suitability of this oil to their engines?
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

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#4467234 - 07/22/17 03:19 PM Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5518
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
And SBC, BBC, and SBF engine guys laugh
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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