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Rotella no longer gas engine rated? #4465518
07/20/17 08:26 PM
07/20/17 08:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,306
Naperville, IL
wwillson Offline OP

Administrator
wwillson  Offline OP

Administrator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,306
Naperville, IL
This is post made by the Rotella Team (BITOG user ChrisGuerrero) in the "Motorcycles, Boating, Small Engine, Aviation, Power Sports" forum as an answer to the question in the subject. I've also posted the answer here so that more of us can see Chris's response.

Quote:
Previously, heavy duty engine oil marketers could claim an API gasoline performance standard on their products if they met CJ-4 and the required performance tests for gasoline standards. Additionally, a waiver was granted for claims of API gasoline performance in cases where products did not meet the chemical restrictions for gasoline specifications (specifically phosphorous limits required for SN).

The recommended viscosity grades for modern gasoline engines are XW-20s and XW-30s. As such, this waiver process is being phased out. Heavy duty engine oils which are XW-30s (and which claim API CK-4 approval) cannot also claim API gasoline standards unless they meet the current phosphorous requirements/limits. The new fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 is one such product that meets the performance requirements of API CK-4 as well as API SN and is formulated with 800 parts per million of phosphorous, which meets the API SN requirements.

While the industry waiver is still currently in existence for heavy duty engine oils that are XW-40’s, this remains in discussion to be addressed by the API in the near future. However, the Shell ROTELLA® brand has made the decision to remove API SN claims, regardless of viscosity, from our other products which do not meet the preferred low-phosphorous chemistry for gasoline engines. It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA® products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465523
07/20/17 08:29 PM
07/20/17 08:29 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,459
out there
Originally Posted By: wwillson
This is post made by the Rotella Team (BITOG user ChrisGuerrero) It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA® products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team



Thanks for posting that explanation Wayne!

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465564
07/20/17 09:10 PM
07/20/17 09:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
This is good news to me!

Thank you SOPUS for making a great diesel oil that us motorcycle owners can find readily at any store and has proven to be stout!

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465583
07/20/17 09:24 PM
07/20/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,176
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,176
US-WA
JASO MA is fit for use in gassers, having a pre requisite of api/acea/ilsac, so since they claimed that MA was ok, I never believed the claim that it was diesel only. But is reformulated, and is friendlier to catcons than the previous gas certified version. That's why I wouldn't want it over CJ/CI.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 103K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 35k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465617
07/20/17 10:03 PM
07/20/17 10:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465632
07/20/17 10:16 PM
07/20/17 10:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,123
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline
motor_oil_madman  Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,123
Houston, Texas
So when are we going to see diesel only shell rotella? Doesn't the CK-4 formula still have reduced ZDDP compared to CJ-4 or is that only because they made it SN certified?

I'll switch over to shell rotella from now on then. Maybe they realized how many people would buy it if they got rid of the gas certification.

Last edited by motor_oil_madman; 07/20/17 10:16 PM.

2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: BrocLuno] #4465709
07/21/17 01:51 AM
07/21/17 01:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh


I agree, MA covers you for a petrol / gas engine.

Why don't they start claiming something like a Euro A3/B3 spec with less restrictions on Phos and avoid the API Sx thing altogether ?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4465857
07/21/17 07:09 AM
07/21/17 07:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
So when are we going to see diesel only shell rotella? Doesn't the CK-4 formula still have reduced ZDDP compared to CJ-4 or is that only because they made it SN certified?

I'll switch over to shell rotella from now on then. Maybe they realized how many people would buy it if they got rid of the gas certification.


CK-4 does not limit ZDDP. I know for certain that the T4 15W40 CK4 is just as stout as the old CJ-4 stuff.

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465885
07/21/17 07:38 AM
07/21/17 07:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,300
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,300
Cincinnati, OH, USA
My reading of it is that the CK-4/SN 30 weight Rotella might not be the greatest oil to use in a diesel either, 800 PPM phosphorus is weak! 40 weight is probably still 1000-1200 PPM, it's likely OK.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4465921
07/21/17 08:15 AM
07/21/17 08:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline
Building3  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Chris: some of us here use the Shell Rotella (for instance I use T4) in our classic and muscle cars which need higher levels of zinc and phosphorous. So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level? Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: BrocLuno] #4465994
07/21/17 09:16 AM
07/21/17 09:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I've been saying it all along - MA means gas engines (99.9% of the time). So who needs API laugh

Ed Hackett and I said much the same thing. If it's E7, E9 now and was E7, E9 before, and we weren't worried about using it in a gasser then, we really shouldn't now, unless we're hung up on a specific new car warranty requirement, and there aren't a lot of vehicles calling for 5w-40 in SM or SM, with nothing beyond that.

Of course, API gasoline certification or even simply claims to be "suitable for" can be helpful. Someone wouldn't want to put a locomotive oil or certain marine lubes in a gasser, but those won't be E7, E9 or anything like that.

This is one time I wish the oil companies would adopt the "suitable for use" wording, but I don't think they'll be jumping on that, given that the big three all have a 5w-40 in SN already, with varying degrees of availability and convenience.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: Building3] #4466062
07/21/17 10:34 AM
07/21/17 10:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 172
New York
jeff78 Offline
jeff78  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 172
New York
Originally Posted By: Building3
So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level?


He's saying only the Rotellas certified for SN have the lower level of phosphorous - and as of now that's only the 5W-30 T6 Multi-Vehicle. The 5W-40 T6 has the higher level.

Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: jeff78] #4466454
07/21/17 04:34 PM
07/21/17 04:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,432
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Online content
Gokhan  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,432
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: jeff78
Originally Posted By: Building3
So, does this mean that Rotella T5 and T4 still have more than 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous, and that only the T6 is below that level?

He's saying only the Rotellas certified for SN have the lower level of phosphorous - and as of now that's only the 5W-30 T6 Multi-Vehicle. The 5W-40 T6 has the higher level.

CK-4 and CJ-4 have the same limits on P, S, and SA. CK-4 is just CJ-4 with stricter limits and more modern tests on engine protection.

xW-40 and thicker is exempt from P limits for SM and SN.

So, that's not the reason.

They probably figured out that it was not worth spending money on all the additional SN tests for gasoline engines on an oil made and intended for HD diesel engines, as few people use such thick oils in their cars these days anyways.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 271,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN high-moly GTL (© 2015 reformulation)
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: Gokhan] #4466980
07/22/17 08:35 AM
07/22/17 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
Or maybe they figured out that the faithful old BMW, Mercedes and turbo Subie users have enough savvy to look beyond the absence of an API S license in judging the suitability of this oil to their engines?


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Rotella no longer gas engine rated? [Re: wwillson] #4467234
07/22/17 02:19 PM
07/22/17 02:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
And SBC, BBC, and SBF engine guys laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
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