Chevy Express 4500 intermittent crank no start

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I have a 2012 chevy express 4500 motor home with 46,000 miles and am in the middle of a 7,000 mile trip from Texas to Nova Scotia and back.

about 6 weeks ago, I checked into a campground and turned the key - it cranked but the fuel pump relay didn't energize. A former fleet manager was on site and banged on the tank and we pulled and reinserted the fuses and it restarted was good for a month.

Happened a month later and it was at the entrance to a national park on a sunday. Tow truck driver thought he found a loose fuel pump connection and it started.

Two days later it happened and technician read OBDII codes and found 3 codes: security key disable, brake computer module miscommunication, ecm miscommunication. no dashboard idiot lights. cleared the codes and the latter two came right back. Said next time switch keys.

Now it happens twice a day. At first switching keys worked like a charm. But not today. Today I opened and closed the door, moved the turn signal, and left ignition on for a few minutes and it restarted. Truck seems to have less power, mpg has dropped 15-20% and it stalls or threatens to stall.


I've been to 3 chevy dealers. All say engine codes are virtually meaningless, it could be one of a dozen things, many of which would cost $800 a pop. unless what ever it is causes total failure, they say they haven't a clue what to do. All say drive it till it totally fails (in the hinterland?!) pay a serious tow truck $500+ to tow it to the nearest dealer and hope the problem doesn't go away by the time they look at it and by the way they are booked for the next week. This is beyond the capabilities of a regular truck shop. One service manager thought the notion of driving til it stranded me was funny.

I find this unacceptable. An RV is not a car that you can rent or borrow another. It by definition is a long ways from home and it dies you can't push it out of an intersection, entrance etc. Called GM of Canada customer service and she said don't expect her to diagnose it, gave me sympathy and thought the dealer ought to play with it till it shows symptoms, which they are unwilling to do.

I can't believe that with all the technological expertise GM has, it's computers don't record why they are temporarily shutting down the fuel pump - only on warm starts.

Any words of experience appreciated - please no shot in the dark responses.
 
In my experience, your symptoms have led to a faulty crankshaft position sensor in two different cars: A mid-2000s Jeep Grand Cherokee and a mid-2000s Mercedes S430.
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
In my experience, your symptoms have led to a faulty crankshaft position sensor in two different cars: A mid-2000s Jeep Grand Cherokee and a mid-2000s Mercedes S430.


how did you diagnose? wait til it failed and tow them in?
 
Originally Posted By: Burt
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
In my experience, your symptoms have led to a faulty crankshaft position sensor in two different cars: A mid-2000s Jeep Grand Cherokee and a mid-2000s Mercedes S430.


how did you diagnose? wait til it failed and tow them in?

Well, there was no towing involved, just waiting for the cars to start again, due to the intermittent nature of the fault. The Jeep was a pretty easy fix, the Mercedes needed some tools but otherwise wasn't too bad. The part is cheap. Why not try it? Yeah it's a shot in the dark, as a previous poster said - but its WAY cheaper than a tow!!!
Diagnosis was done with some discretionary Googling of the symptoms and the car's make and model and year. Both came up with the crank sensor as a common fault causing this common issue, and the CPS replacement solved it on both occasions.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
This guy's story with his 2011 Chevy Van may be of interest:

http://imgur.com/gallery/kBTT0/

Unless you're really lucky, shot in the dark responses may be all you get.



This guy did some serioius diagnostics on it. Something the service reps are unwilling to do.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Burt

This guy did some serious diagnostics on it. Something the service reps are unwilling to do.


Only a good mechanic with a LOT of experience, and knows how to do PROPER troubleshooting and diagnostics, will be able to fix it. and it likely won't be cheap - - - -

but I'd rather pay to have it fixed right than be stranded in the middle of nowhere - - -
at the mercy of some dude that really has no idea how to fix it.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Burt

This guy did some serious diagnostics on it. Something the service reps are unwilling to do.


Only a good mechanic with a LOT of experience, and knows how to do PROPER troubleshooting and diagnostics, will be able to fix it. and it likely won't be cheap - - - -

but I'd rather pay to have it fixed right than be stranded in the middle of nowhere - - -
at the mercy of some dude that really has no idea how to fix it.



Wholeheartedly agree! But if three dealers and GM "customer service" turn me down, where do I go? That's really my point. BITOGer's want to fix it themselves or shoot in the dark, but I need someone with real expertise that is willing to roll up their sleeves and use proper diagnostics. How do I find a person like that in Quebec, Ontario or in Northwest NY?
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
This guy's story with his 2011 Chevy Van may be of interest:

http://imgur.com/gallery/kBTT0/

Unless you're really lucky, shot in the dark responses may be all you get.

Did you read the back story on that...The customer tried jump starting it from a 36V system
Oh my!
 
Your codes are very similar to a bad BCM, but with out being able to data log it is hard to tell.

A faulted CPS on GM will give you some different codes and usually a flashing check engine light.

Have you had a check engine light or flashing check engine light?

Does it sit often? Have you checked the harness for and critter damage?

It is an RV so I am going to assume it sits.

Is this a 6.0?
 
6.0 that sits months at a time

No cel's, lack of which confounds service reps. They are only interested in obvious easy to spot problems.
 
Where's your route taking you? Through New York and PA, perhaps?

There's a few YouTubers in that area (Eric O of South Main Auto - Avoca, NY, Ivan of Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics - State College, PA, and ScannerDanner - Pittsburgh) who are top notch automotive diagnosticians. They may be able to help if you can get in touch with them (which I'm sure a few people here could help you with).
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Burt
6.0 that sits months at a time

No cel's, lack of which confounds service reps. They are only interested in obvious easy to spot problems.


Really look at your wires I had some sort of rodent in my truck and it was acting up. Found he ate through some wires.
Mine sits for months, just tows my trailer. I had no CEL but a sometimes no start or stall. Ate some wires that I didn't see. I just started doing continuity checks and found 6 or 7 wires eaten through.

In general unless something happened they are reliable. It sounds BCM or ECM.

Did you say the year and I missed it?
 
Ok 2012. Let me look, I have a pretty good amount of LS guys who know this stuff.

Another common one in the vans is the ignition switch.
 
The next time this happens, remove the starter relay and use a small wire to jump the terminals. If it starts it could be a bad relay or a bad ECM not sending the request signal to start. When it does this again, listen for clicks at the relay. No clicks - look at the ECM or wires from relay to ecm. If it clicks - replace relay and check wires from fuse box to starter.

I just went thru this with a CTS and the ECM replacement fixed it.

I am in Texas as well and don't mind helping you if you want to come over. I have the latest GM tech2 and MDI equipment and we can do the FULL diagnostics you NEED. I also work for GM so I have contact with engineers and other folks who might help.
 
Last edited:
Obviously without more info nobody can really say what's causing your troubles- but one clue that many seem to be overlooking is that your fuel economy has taken a dive.

Unless it's a total coincidence, it may be related to a failing fuel pump. I would not make the mistake of not looking into it.
 
Interesting haven't heard of anyone having issue's like this on RV chassis. I've had only one no start on our 05 in 4 years which was the IAC and only did it once. Based on what I've seen our Jayco I'd check the wiring along the chassis/frame from front to back. I found loose, bare or about to be bare wires on ours and corrected a lot of potential issue's. RV builders are terrible.. Good luck, breaking down in a RV would have to be nightmare.
 
This may be your issue:



xTooltipElement

Service Information Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback TIS2Web Help


2012 Chevrolet Express - 2WD | Express, Savana VIN G/H Service Manual | Campaigns | Safety | Document ID: 4074886
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#14515B: Product Safety - Chassis Electronic Control Module Internal Contamination - (Feb 2, 2015)
Subject: 14515B – Chassis Electronic Control Module Internal Contamination

Models: 2009-2014 Buick Enclave
2009-2014 Cadillac CTS (VIN D)
2008-2014 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV
2008-2013 Chevrolet Avalanche
2009-2012 Chevrolet Colorado
2007-2014 Chevrolet Silverado HD Cab Chassis
2007-2014 GMC Sierra HD Cab Chassis
2007-2009, 2014 GMC Sierra HD
2008-2014 Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe
2008-2014 Chevrolet Express
2012-2014 Chevrolet Impala ‘W’
2009-2014 Chevrolet Traverse
2007-2013 Chevrolet Silverado
2007-2009, 2014 Chevrolet Silverado HD
2009-2012 GMC Canyon
2007-2013 GMC Sierra
2009-2014 GMC Acadia
2008-2014 GMC Savana
2008-2014 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL
2008-2009 Hummer H2
2009-2010 Hummer H3, H3T
2009 Saturn Outlook
2008-2009 Saturn VUE
2014 Chevrolet Captiva
2009 Saturn Outlook
2008-2009 Saturn VUE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to identify modules for use with RPO JL1 in the parts information chart, and to add the 3500 series pickups to the labor time chart. Please discard all copies of bulletin 14515A.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is a violation of Federal law for a dealer to deliver a new motor vehicle or any new or used item of motor vehicle equipment (including a tire) covered by this notification under a sale or lease until the defect or noncompliance is remedied.

Vehicles involved in this recall were placed on stop delivery October 1, 2014. Once the service procedure contained in this bulletin has been performed on the vehicle, the vehicle is released from stop delivery and the vehicle can be delivered to the customer.

All involved vehicles that are in dealer inventory must be held and not delivered to customers, dealer traded, or used for demonstration purposes until the repair contained in this bulletin has been performed on the vehicle.

Condition
General Motors has decided that a defect which relates to motor vehicle safety exists in certain 2013 – 2014 model year Cadillac CTS, Escalade, and Escalade ESV vehicles; Chevrolet Suburban and Tahoe vehicles; and GMC Yukon and Yukon XL vehicles and certain 2014 model year Buick Enclave vehicles; Chevrolet Express and Captiva, Impala Limited, Silverado HD and Traverse vehicles; and GMC Acadia, Savana and Sierra HD vehicles. Some of these vehicles were built or serviced with contamination within the chassis electronic module. This contamination can cause an electrical short in the module. If the module experiences an electrical short, the vehicle could display a check engine light, stall, or fail to start. If the vehicle is equipped with a trailer brake, the vehicle could lose trailer brake function and display a “Service Trailer Brake System” indicator. If the vehicle experiences this condition and stalls while in motion, there could be an increased risk of a vehicle crash.

Additionally, a small number of 2007-2012 model year vehicles that include; 2008-2013 Chevrolet Avalanche, 2008-2009 Chevrolet Colorado vehicles; 2007-2013 Chevrolet Silverado, 2008-2014 Suburban, and Tahoe vehicles; 2008-2013 GMC Sierra and 2009-2012 Yukon vehicles; 2008-2009 GMC Canyon vehicles; 2009-2010 HUMMER H2, H3 and H3T vehicles; and 2008-2009 Saturn VUE and 2009 Outlook vehicles may have been serviced with a chassis electronic module that could have internal contamination, causing an electrical short in the module. If the module experiences an electrical short, the vehicle could display a check engine light, stall, or fail to start. If the vehicle experiences this condition and stalls while in motion, there could be an increased risk of a vehicle crash.

Correction
Dealers are to replace the chassis electronic module on all affected vehicles.

Vehicles Involved
All involved vehicles are identified by Vehicle Identification Number on the Investigate Vehicle History screen in GM Global Warranty Management system. Dealership service personnel should always check this site to confirm vehicle involvement prior to beginning any required inspections and/or repairs. It is important to routinely use this tool to verify eligibility because not all similar vehicles may be involved regardless of description or option content.

For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they have no involved vehicles currently assigned.

The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other than follow-up necessary to complete this recall is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this recall.

Parts Information
Parts required to complete this recall are to be obtained from General Motors Customer Care and Aftersales (GMCCA). For parts currently under open ordering, please refer to your “involved vehicles listing” before ordering parts. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.

Part Number
Description
Vehicle Year
Model
QTY/Vehicle

20850905
Module, Engine Speed Power Take-Off Control
2007-2014
Chevrolet Silverado 3500 w/PTO

GMC Sierra 3500 w/PTO
1

20850923
Module, Trailer Brake Power Control
2007-2009
Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500

w/JL1

GMC Sierra 2500/3500 w/JL1
1

20759945
Module, Fuel Pump Flow Control
2007-2009
Buick Enclave

Cadillac CTS (VIN D)

Cadillac Escalade Models

Chevrolet Avalanche

Chevrolet Colorado

Chevrolet Suburban,

Chevrolet Silverado 1500

Chevrolet Tahoe

Chevrolet Traverse,

Chevrolet Express

GMC Acadia,

GMC Canyon,

GMC Sierra 1500

GMC Savana

GMC Yukon Models

Saturn VUE,

Saturn Outlook (’09 Only)

Hummer H2, H3, H3T (’08-09)
1

20877116
Module, Fuel Pump Flow Control
2010-2012
Buick Enclave

Cadillac CTS (VIN D)

Cadillac Escalade Models

Chevrolet Avalanche

Chevrolet Colorado,

Chevrolet Impala

Chevrolet Tahoe

Chevrolet Suburban,

Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Chevrolet Traverse

Chevrolet Express

GMC Acadia

GMC Canyon,

GMC Sierra 1500

GMC Savana, Yukon models

Hummer H2, H3, H3T (‘10 Only)
1

20964299
Module, Trailer Brake Power Control
2013-2014
Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500

w/JL1

GMC Sierra 2500/3500 w/JL1
1

20964306
Module, Trailer Brake Power Control
2013-2014
Chevrolet Tahoe w/JL1

Chevrolet Suburban w/JL1

Chevrolet Silverado 1500 (‘13 Only) w/JL1

Chevrolet Avalanche (’13 only) w/JL1

GMC Sierra 1500 (‘13 Only) w/JL1

GMC Yukon Models w/JL1
1

20898936
Module, Fuel Pump Flow Control
2010-2012
Chevrolet Avalanche

Chevrolet Tahoe

Chevrolet Silverado 1500

Chevroletr Suburban

GMC Sierra 1500,

GMC Yukon Models
1

20964305
Module, Fuel Pump Flow Control
2013-2014
Cadillac Escalade Models

Cadillac CTS (VIN D)

Buick Enclave

Chevrolet Captiva (’14 Only)

Chevrolet Express

Chevrolet Impala Limited (W VIN)

Chevrolet Silverado 1500 (‘13 Only)

Chevrolet Suburban

Chevrolet Tahoe

Chevrolet Traverse

GMC Acadia

GMC Sierra 1500 (’13 Only)

GMC Savana

GMC Yukon Models
1


Service Procedure
 1. Remove the fuel pump flow control / trailer brake power control / engine speed power take-off control module. Refer to Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement in SI.
 2. Install the new fuel pump flow / trailer brake power control / engine speed power take-off control module. Refer to Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement in SI.
Floor Plan Reimbursement
Dealers in possession of vehicles included in the Stop Delivery are eligible for reimbursement of floor plan expense upon completion of this recall. This reimbursement is limited to the number of days from the Stop Delivery message to receipt of the recall parts and/or repair procedures. Floor plan reimbursement beyond these dates is not allowed. The amount of reimbursement should be charged as a net amount expense using the recall labor operation provided.

Courtesy Transportation – For US and Canada
The General Motors Courtesy Transportation program is intended to minimize customer inconvenience when a vehicle requires a repair that is covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranties. The availability of courtesy transportation to customers whose vehicles are within the warranty coverage period and involved in a product program is very important in maintaining customer satisfaction. Dealers are to ensure that these customers understand that shuttle service or some other form of courtesy transportation is available and will be provided at no charge. Dealers should refer to the General Motors Service Policies and Procedures Manual for Courtesy Transportation guidelines.

Warranty Transaction Information
Submit a transaction using the table below. All transactions should be submitted as a ZFAT transaction type, unless noted otherwise.

Note: To avoid having to "H" route the courtesy transportation, floor plan transaction for approval, it must be submitted prior to the repair transaction.

Labor Code
Description
Labor Time
Net Item

9100977
Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (Silverado 1500/2500/3500, Sierra 1500/2500/3500)
1.1
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (Acadia, Traverse, Enclave)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (Full Size Utilities)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (Express, Savanna)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (W VIN Impala, Canyon, Colorado)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (Captiva/VUE)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (VIN D) (CTS Coupe and Wagon)
0.5
N/A

Fuel Pump Flow Control Module Replacement (H2, H3, H3T)
1.2
N/A

9101162
Floor Plan Reimbursement
N/A
*


* The amount identified in “Net Item” should represent the product of the vehicle’s average daily interest rate (see table below) multiplied by the actual number of days the vehicle was in dealer inventory and not available for sale. This reimbursement is limited to the number of days from the date of the stop delivery message (October 1, 2014) to the date the repair is completed and the vehicle is ready for sale (not to exceed 87 days):

Vehicle
US Reimbursement Amount
Canadian Reimbursement Amount

2014 Cadillac Escalade
$ 9.95
$14.07

2014 Cadillac Escalade ESV
$10.38
$13.50

2014 Cadillac CTS Sedan
$9.31
$7.44

2014 CTS Wagon
$7.51
$7.44

2014 CTS Coupe
$6.24
$7.44

2014 Cadillac ATS Sedan
$5.34
TBD

2014 Buick Enclave
$6.29
$8.08

2014 Chevrolet Suburban
$7.65
$10.04

2014 Chevrolet Tahoe
$7.37
$9.31

2014 Chevrolet Express
$4.11
$5.37

2014 Chevrolet Impala Limited (W VIN)
$4.44
N/A

2014 Chevrolet Silverado HD
$5.86
$8.44

2014 Chevrolet Traverse
$4.98
$7.09

2014 GMC Acadia
$5.81
$5.85

2014 GMC Savanna
$4.30
$5.56

2014 GMC Sierra HD
$6.41
$8.77

2014 Yukon
$7.59
$9.95

2014 Yukon XL
$7.97
$10.00


Customer Notification – For US and Canada
General Motors will notify customers of this recall on their vehicle (see copy of customer letter included with this bulletin).

Customer Notification – For Export
Letters will be sent to known owners of record located within areas covered by the US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act. For owners outside these areas, dealers should notify customers using the attached sample letter.

Dealer Recall Responsibility – For US and Export (US States, Territories, and Possessions)
It is a violation of Federal law for a dealer to deliver a new motor vehicle or any new or used item of motor vehicle equipment (including a tire) covered by this notification under a sale or lease until the defect or noncompliance is remedied.

The US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act provides that each vehicle that is subject to a recall of this type must be adequately repaired within a reasonable time after the customer has tendered it for repair. A failure to repair within sixty days after tender of a vehicle is prima facie evidence of failure to repair within a reasonable time. If the condition is not adequately repaired within a reasonable time, the customer may be entitled to an identical or reasonably equivalent vehicle at no charge or to a refund of the purchase price less a reasonable allowance for depreciation. To avoid having to provide these burdensome remedies, every effort must be made to promptly schedule an appointment with each customer and to repair their vehicle as soon as possible. In the recall notification letters, customers are told how to contact the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration if the recall is not completed within a reasonable time.

Dealer Recall Responsibility – All
All unsold new vehicles in dealers' possession and subject to this recall must be held and inspected/repaired per the service procedure of this recall bulletin before customers take possession of these vehicles.

Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this recall at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, from this time forward.

Customers who have recently purchased vehicles sold from your vehicle inventory, and for which there is no customer information indicated on the dealer listing, are to be contacted by the dealer. Arrangements are to be made to make the required correction according to the instructions contained in this bulletin. A copy of the customer letter is provided in this bulletin for your use in contacting customers. Recall follow-up cards should not be used for this purpose, since the customer may not as yet have received the notification letter.

In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this recall enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your dealership for service in the future, you must take the steps necessary to be sure the recall correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

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Originally Posted By: Burt
Wholeheartedly agree! But if three dealers and GM "customer service" turn me down, where do I go? That's really my point. BITOGer's want to fix it themselves or shoot in the dark, but I need someone with real expertise that is willing to roll up their sleeves and use proper diagnostics. How do I find a person like that in Quebec, Ontario or in Northwest NY?


Would you happen to be heading anywhere near Avoca, NY ?

There's a mechanic in that area that's one of top 10 mechanics in the entire United States. If he can't fix it, it can't be fixed. South Main Auto Repair, 47 South Main Street Avoca, NY.
 
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