Any changes or new data for or against TGMO 0w20?

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I recently purchased a new 2017 Tundra 5.7 4x4. I've been reading older forum posts regarding M1 vs TGMO, and I'd like to see if there was any updated information to encourage or discourage the use of TGMO over M1. I had planned on using M1, but I'm torn after seeing that TGMO might have specific properties with Toyota engines in mind. I've used M1 in my past vehicles, but I want to use the best oil for this truck. I live in Texas where the summer temperatures can reach 100+ and winters can get down to 10 occasionally. I change my oil every 5,000 miles, and I do not do any off-roading or severe driving. My biggest obstacle is trusting an oil the dealership sells and one that isn't a "name brand" such as M1 or Penzoil. Any advice or opinions are appreciated.
 
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If it was mine and best I thought I was going to be doing for it it would be M1 you just can't beat roll back price at
WM for such a top notch oil.
 
From what I've read on the forum, Toyota start with a volume of TGMO, and build the car around it, whether it be a Prius or a Tundra...that's their design philosophy, and it works for any of the half dozen varietals of TGMO that have and currently exist...it's that good.

Members have reported 8% fuel economy improvements, and a quieter engine.

I'm not sure that I believe the claims regarding male pattern baldness and the heatbreak of psoriasis, but whenever I refute the OTHER claims, I'm a hater who has never tried it, so therefore have no idea.

5,000 for a full synthetic in your application is a cake walk...pick a name brand that you can get at Walmart, and you won't go wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Doesn't Mobil 1 make TGMO for the US domestic market?


Yes, apparently using a unique additive package that Toyota specified to Mobil...rumour had it at one stage that they even provided the package TO Mobil specifically for this product.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Doesn't Mobil 1 make TGMO for the US domestic market?


Yes, apparently using a unique additive package that Toyota specified to Mobil...rumour had it at one stage that they even provided the package TO Mobil specifically for this product.


It must be that Japanese moly I've heard about. I do remember reading how special this oil really is. It's a great oil, no doubts, but there are plenty of great oils out there.
 
Any of the major brands of proper speced oil will allow the longest life possible. This isn't the 1970's oils
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
From what I've read on the forum, Toyota start with a volume of TGMO, and build the car around it, whether it be a Prius or a Tundra...that's their design philosophy, and it works for any of the half dozen varietals of TGMO that have and currently exist...it's that good.

Members have reported 8% fuel economy improvements, and a quieter engine.

I'm not sure that I believe the claims regarding male pattern baldness and the heatbreak of psoriasis, but whenever I refute the OTHER claims, I'm a hater who has never tried it, so therefore have no idea.

5,000 for a full synthetic in your application is a cake walk...pick a name brand that you can get at Walmart, and you won't go wrong.
If it is on the net it must be fact.
 
Originally Posted By: MobilinHyundia
WM , WM, WM, WM, WM...

Im sick of hearing that word WM.


WM almost sounds like an oil property worthy to be listed in the specs
smile.gif
 
If you can get it at a good price then go for it, but OTC synthetics have a better base stock if that matters to you. I would choose Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 and rest easy. Great add pack and basestock, and at a great every day price.
 
TGMO has about twice the moly. We don't have CCS and NOACK data on TGMO to compare the base oils. With TGMO you get the conventional Ca detergent like in Pennzoil Platinum but M1 uses Ca/Mg mix.

I haven't done a UOA on M1 0W-20. I like the twice the dose of moly in TGMO though. It's probably the same kind (trinuclear moly) in TGMO, M1, and Pennzoil Platinum.

One downside of Pennzoil Platinum is that, while its base oil is only second to Amsoil Signature Series' (and probably ties with Quaker State's), its moly dosage is on the low side.
 
Molybdenum is not the end all to be all. It's not some magic dust that makes oil into super oil. Many oils have no moly present yet they perform splendidly. Castrol and Kendall use titanium. Some use components not picked up on analysis. In fact, what I see as of late is more oils reducing moly in their formulations.

The idea that if something works then more of it should work even better is a fallacy that people should have learned long ago but stubbornly, people never learn.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The idea that if something works then more of it should work even better is a fallacy that people should have learned long ago but stubbornly, people never learn.


everything additive in oil is non linear.

As Son of Joe stated the other day...the most bang for the buck id the first part...it gets less from there.
 
Regarding moly Japanese engineers and oil blenders are huge believers in it. It's no coincidence that TGMO has always had a high dose of moly.

It looks like Vanderbilt's titanium has flopped, with few oils using it now. Being a solid (despite being marketed as a liquid) additive, it was always questionable and it was always meant as a secondary antiwear (AW) additive.

There are organic AW additives out there but I think you need some metal nucleus in it for best performance.

The main reason many oils have moved away from moly is that it catalyses and increases deposit formation, and with ever-increasing engine-cleanness standards, it makes it hard for cheap oils with cheap base oils to meet the standard if they contain moly.

Will there be better AW additives in the future? Perhaps. I believe in moly though. Vast majority of TGMO users have excellent UOAs and are very satisfied with it. M1, despite having a good base oil, seems to give so - so results. The old PP used to be the BITOG darling, far more popular than M1, and gave excellent UOAs. The newer PurePlus PP seems to give worse UOAs and popularity seems to have dwindled, possibly more because of the high price than anything else.

Any 0W-20 will be just fine. I personally like and trust TGMO and have got excellent results wit it, despite being thinner than recommended in my application.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
TGMO has about twice the moly. We don't have CCS and NOACK data on TGMO to compare the base oils. With TGMO you get the conventional Ca detergent like in Pennzoil Platinum but M1 uses Ca/Mg mix.

I haven't done a UOA on M1 0W-20. I like the twice the dose of moly in TGMO though. It's probably the same kind (trinuclear moly) in TGMO, M1, and Pennzoil Platinum.

One downside of Pennzoil Platinum is that, while its base oil is only second to Amsoil Signature Series' (and probably ties with Quaker State's), its moly dosage is on the low side.


According the MSDS's from XOM (and whatever one can draw from that) TGMO is entirely Group III based, whilst an oil like M1 EP 0w-20 is ~80% PAO. IF you can get the M1 for less money, it is the better "value", being the more expensive oil to blend.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The idea that if something works then more of it should work even better is a fallacy that people should have learned long ago but stubbornly, people never learn.
...the most bang for the buck id the first part...it gets less from there.
That's one more example of the law of diminishing returns---very basic economics.
 
If I wanted to use the best commonly available oil, there are two M1 oils in this grade that come to mind.
PP would also be fine although it has inferior W end performance to either M1 oil as well as higher NOACK per PQIA VOAs although the difference isn't huge and there is nowhere in Texas where viscosity in extreme cold would be of any concern.
TGMO would be well down the list for me since it is made of a basestock blend inferior to that found in the M1 pair as well as that used by SOPUS and contains an excessive amount of VII to enable it to achieve its high VI.
Realistically, you could run any 0W-20 on 10K drains and the engine would still be the last part of the vehicle to wear out. Running the same on 5K drains will likely keep it cleaner, though.
 
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