Rotella no longer gas engine rated?

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You know....one question I have is about the change that is likely to happen to all these HDEO oils with Particulate Filters and AdBlue and all the other environmental wonders that are being bolted and welded on to Diesels these days.

We are ragging on Rotella in this thread, but I wonder what is happening to Delo and Delvac and Supertech??????



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Been using Rotella T-6 in the bikes since it hit the market, but with them deleting the gasoline engine rating, I'm wondering about Pennzoil's Platinum Plus Euro in 5W40 - except there's nothing showing it compatible with JASO MA2.

Any ideas ??
 
Morning All;

First time on here with a post;
I have been looking into the T6 for my Victory 106 engine that calls for a 20-40 that everybody knows is a odd weight of oil that's not carried in most if not all automotive parts houses. Is the T6 5-40 to thin to run?? i am asking about the 5W part of course. I just changed oil and used the Lucas 10-40 blend motorcycle oil. But after finding this site and looking around, i don't think this was a good direction to go here?

Victory is not producing motorcycles anymore which is a sore subject with me. And i don't want to give Polaris another dime of my money. So, I am looking for options to keep my Vic happy and on the road and be easily bought and not have to be ordered.

Thanks All
Rick
I'm using Amsoil V-twin 20w-40 in my Vic and it's working good for me--I have an oil analysis to prove it. It cost a little less than the Victory oil and is full-syn. I use a NAPA Gold (Wix) oil filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Robster
Morning All;

First time on here with a post;
I have been looking into the T6 for my Victory 106 engine that calls for a 20-40 that everybody knows is a odd weight of oil that's not carried in most if not all automotive parts houses. Is the T6 5-40 to thin to run?? i am asking about the 5W part of course. I just changed oil and used the Lucas 10-40 blend motorcycle oil. But after finding this site and looking around, i don't think this was a good direction to go here? ..

Thanks All
Rick
I'm using Amsoil V-twin 20w-40 in my Vic and it's working good for me--I have an oil analysis to prove it. It cost a little less than the Victory oil and is full-syn. I use a NAPA Gold (Wix) oil filter.


Rick,

1. I would not use T6 in my Victory, Vic suggests a 20/40 and you would be going to a 5/40 and that is only half the story, T6 is bad enough as it is with shearing. Bottom line, Vic recommends a 20/40, your going in the wrong direction, if anything go to a 20/50 on your air cooled bike.

2. Rotella T4 15/40 would be a great choice as well.

3. If you didnt want the conventional Rotella T4 then I would go for almost any 20/50 synthetic like Valvoline Motorcycle 20/50. Heck even the Valvoline 20/50 Conventional mixed 2 qts 20/50 and 2 quarts 10/40.

4. I would never use the "off" brand stuff like Lucus etc....
 
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UHG.........

And just 6 months ago, I'm the guy that said I was using HDEO for most of my applications, especially my motorcycles.....and Rotella was my soup of choice.

Why do they continue to negatively tinker with a good product????? (No answer needed....we know the answer!)


Maybe M1 15w50 is now the best choice for a bike oil....... and only $25 for 5 quarts at Wally Word.


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When the new stuff was introduced back in Nov or Dec, they had the new bottles with the new T4 name and the new product, but same old certifications still, correct? If that's the case, wouldn't the current new stuff still meet the prior certifications, SM specifically?

I recently bought a new bottle of the new T4 with the old CJ, SM certifications still on the label...
 
I just realized that I have been using the CK version of Rotella T4 15W40 in my wet-clutch bike for a few hundred miles. The WM here only carries the "new shape bottle" Rotella jugs and I grabbed the one that I always grab, which is now the T4 variant.


It feels no different than the old formula Rotella T.. so I doubt the wet clutch performance has changed at all.

But I would need to do a UOA to see if the molecular performance is still as stout.
 
Have you guys seen this??

http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

Please discuss

Edit: Like many of you I have been loving the performance (and price) of Shell Rotella T3. My cbr600 f2 loved the stuff. Needless to say I am concerned about the new formulation. Right now I am using the T4 in my just purchased cbr600rr (2003). It has 30k miles on it and seems to be running real good with the T4. But I have nothing to compare it to.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pattywagon
Have you guys seen this??

http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

Please discuss

Edit: Like many of you I have been loving the performance (and price) of Shell Rotella T3. My cbr600 f2 loved the stuff. Needless to say I am concerned about the new formulation. Right now I am using the T4 in my just purchased cbr600rr (2003). It has 30k miles on it and seems to be running real good with the T4. But I have nothing to compare it to.


The old stuff (http://pqiadata.org/ShellRotellaT15W40.html) has very comparable numbers, so I am not seeing anything to be concerned about.

But in the back of my mind is that finding by Ford that CK-4 doesn't provide enough wear protection -- but that WAS for diesel motors, and apparently only for oils that are CK-4 AND SN rated (for lower ZDDP levels).

The T4 stuff still looks to carry a SM rating so it shouldn't have lower ZDDP levels.
 
Will probably be changing the oil tomorrow.

I bought two qts Valvoline MC 20w50 and 2 qts 10w40. I'm still planning on going with the 2 qts 20w50 and 1.5 qts of 10w40 route. Probably going to change up the filters and use a Fram TG instead.

I will let you know how clutch is. My CBR's clutch has always been chunky, would only get super smooth shifting above 5k RPM. Will like to see how Valvoline MC oil compares.

So long Rotella/Delo/Delvac. It's been nice.
 
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The new CK-4 specification calls for an increase in oxidation resistance, better wear protection, and better shear stability than the outgoing CJ-4 spec. Doesn't that sound ideal for motorcycle engines? What's not to like?

Something we seem to forget is that the new oil is still CJ-4 rated. It's right there on the bottle. Meaning it exceeds CJ-4 specs but also meets the more demanding CK-4 spec. The additives showing up in the VOA look different now, but I don't think we're going backwards with regards to performance with the new rating.
 
Originally Posted By: jgturbo
The new CK-4 specification calls for an increase in oxidation resistance, better wear protection, and better shear stability than the outgoing CJ-4 spec. Doesn't that sound ideal for motorcycle engines? What's not to like?

Something we seem to forget is that the new oil is still CJ-4 rated. It's right there on the bottle. Meaning it exceeds CJ-4 specs but also meets the more demanding CK-4 spec. The additives showing up in the VOA look different now, but I don't think we're going backwards with regards to performance with the new rating.


Yeah I think everyone is thinking that CK4 automatically means CK4/SN. The SN rating is what cuts the ZDDP down to the 800ppm level.

But you can find plenty of CK4 oils that are ALSO SM or lower. These will still have ZDDP in the 1100-1200ppm range.

What I am finding is that Shell Rotella oils are still being offered as CK4/SM and the additive makeup looks much like the old stuff.

So do not fret my fellow Rotella fans.
 
Sorry,I admit I did not know there was CK4 and CK4/SN. I thought CK4 automatically meant it met SN
 
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
Sorry,I admit I did not know there was CK4 and CK4/SN. I thought CK4 automatically meant it met SN


The new Delo HDEO seems to have gone straight to CK4/SN so I've ruled that out. Not sure on Delvac yet.

I plan on checking a few farm stores this weekend to find any remaining CJ oils to last me a few riding seasons.

Soon enough it will be important for motorcycle owners to actively look for HDEO that is NOT gas engine rated since SN seems to be the thing dragging down protection levels.

On a related note I think JASO MA2 is a similar issue. The spec came out because more and more bikes have catalytic converters in them so the push is to reduce ZDDP that can damage emission components. The few VOAs I checked of MA2 oils seems to indicate less ppm of the stuff we love.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
Sorry,I admit I did not know there was CK4 and CK4/SN. I thought CK4 automatically meant it met SN


The new Delo HDEO seems to have gone straight to CK4/SN so I've ruled that out. Not sure on Delvac yet.

I plan on checking a few farm stores this weekend to find any remaining CJ oils to last me a few riding seasons.

Soon enough it will be important for motorcycle owners to actively look for HDEO that is NOT gas engine rated since SN seems to be the thing dragging down protection levels.

On a related note I think JASO MA2 is a similar issue. The spec came out because more and more bikes have catalytic converters in them so the push is to reduce ZDDP that can damage emission components. The few VOAs I checked of MA2 oils seems to indicate less ppm of the stuff we love.


Well thank you. It would seem to make sense from a business standpoint to just have one CK4/SN rating instead of blending for both wouldn't it?
 
Previously, heavy duty engine oil marketers could claim an API gasoline performance standard on their products if they met CJ-4 and the required performance tests for gasoline standards. Additionally, a waiver was granted for claims of API gasoline performance in cases where products did not meet the chemical restrictions for gasoline specifications (specifically phosphorous limits required for SN).

The recommended viscosity grades for modern gasoline engines are XW-20s and XW-30s. As such, this waiver process is being phased out. Heavy duty engine oils which are XW-30s (and which claim API CK-4 approval) cannot also claim API gasoline standards unless they meet the current phosphorous requirements/limits. The new fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 is one such product that meets the performance requirements of API CK-4 as well as API SN and is formulated with 800 parts per million of phosphorous, which meets the API SN requirements.

While the industry waiver is still currently in existence for heavy duty engine oils that are XW-40’s, this remains in discussion to be addressed by the API in the near future. However, the Shell ROTELLA® brand has made the decision to remove API SN claims, regardless of viscosity, from our other products which do not meet the preferred low-phosphorous chemistry for gasoline engines. It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA® products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team
 
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