Hondas, Toyotas and the brainwashed

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A co-worker is looking for a used car for her daughter.
I noted that some of the Toyota and Scion models she was looking at had serious potential oil consumption problems and that the Hondas could have their issues as well.
I suggested that she look at Ford Focus and Fusion models and she reacted with horror.
A Ford? Those aren't any good!
I told her that she was seriously misguided as to the excellence of late model used Toys and Hondas and that in my personal experience the Focus is a solid car and the Fusion also holds up very well from what I've read. I went on to tell her that the old Tauruses in our fleet at work have been great out to about 200K and that both the '97 Aerostar we bought new and the old E350 I paid $900.00 for were very solid vehicles.
People seemed to be stuck in the nineties when it comes to their opinions on what vehicles are good and reliable.
The evidence that later Hondas and Toyotas aren't all that is readily available as is the evidence that many more recent American nameplate vehicles are very good.
I also suggested that she consider late models Hyudai/Kia cars. They're dirt cheap used just as they were dirt cheap new. They typically also have a lot of toys for the buck and if they don't have the greatest driving dynamics that won't matter to any young lady.
These Korean makes seem to be pretty durable and reliable save for the occasional thrown rod in some recent engines, but most of those have had their engines junked and replaced under warranty by now.
 
Given my and other's experiences with Ford, especially engines and transmissions, I don't see anything wrong with her opinion. After my Taurus experience, it'll be a cold day in you-know-where before I buy another Ford. My cousins go through Cadillac and Lincoln engines like I change oil. Best friend F150 ejected a spark plug on the drive home. Don't get me started on Chrysler products (including my own).

Also my Honda and my Toyota seem totally unafraid of being stereotyped by their stereotypically ultra-reliable behavior.

Queue typical, ultimately useless thread full of anecdotes (like mine) and opinions.

Let her buy what she wants, and then you won't be to blame when it all blows up.
 
I had issues with an '05 Focus. Friends and coworkers have had issues with other American brands that were pretty bad. The only import I've known someone to have significant issues with was back in '04, when an ex drove a new Civic SI on the same oil until the engine seized 40k+ later.

I've personally had issues with past subarus, but most were software issues on new models (I know) and not systemic, pervasive quality issues.

Anyway, I'll take some oil consumption over things falling apart and failing.
 
My brother was a hardcore Honda guy. Owned 3 or 4 at a time. Even he has moved on from newer Hondas. Some people need it to happen to them before they believe something.
 
I dono. If the ads are to be believed, Ford has the most loyal buyers. We've generally had good service out of ours.

Quote:
Check here...

http://www.dashboard-light.com/

Plenty of data on the long-term reliability of used cars.


That'a a half baked study on "issues with cars at auction". So the junk the dealer doesn't want....
 
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We've had nine Hondas thus far and all have been very good cars but not everyone has had this experience.
Our '97 Aerostar was easily as reliable and trouble-free as any Honda out to thirteen years and 175K.
Our fleet Tauruses at work have been very solid.
YMMV
The uninformed seem to think that anything wearing a Honda or Toyota badge must be wonderful while nothing could be further from the truth.
There are lots of good cars out there that are neither Hondas nor Toyotas.
 
I'll stick with my 80s Chryslers.I get the last laugh when practically all the Mazdas,Subarus,Hondas,Isuzus,Toyotas,Datsuns....from that era are nearly extinct from the roads.Think any of todays cars will last 30 years? Don't think so...
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I'll stick with my 80s Chryslers.I get the last laugh when practically all the Mazdas,Subarus,Hondas,Isuzus,Toyotas,Datsuns....from that era are nearly extinct from the roads.Think any of todays cars will last 30 years? Don't think so...


6 more years, and my ciera will be there.
 
Nothing from the Big 2 excites me. All the car makers get their parts from the same handful of manufacturers. What may decide quality or the perception of quality is the place of assembly. Most Japanese brands are assembled in the USA now as are brands from Korea and Europe. Another factor is how automated the assembly line is.

In the 90's, I could compare a Mitsubishi assembled in Normal Illinois and another assembled in Japan. The difference was astounding. Why? A number of reasons including don't care attitudes, drugs and alcohol, and a slew of others. I hope we have gotten better in the 20-30 years since.
 
I've bought two NEW Japanese cars in my life....1992 Honda Accord & a 2010 Toyota Corolla, Nothing but problems with both.
The Accord didn't make it to 100,000 miles on 2 Automatic Transmissions though the dealer warranted the first 2, I rebuilt the 3rd myself & sold that POS.
I fixed the massive oil leak on the Toyota after Corporate & the Dealer blew me off even though I complained several times before the powertrain warranty expired.


NEVER again! Got my eye on a low mileage 2006 Buick Lucerne with a Northstar/4T80E.....I could buy this car & rebuild the engine & trans for less than I have in the purchase price+taxes of the Toyota. That is just sad!
 
I don't blame people who have been personally burned one way or the other with a particular make.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Given my and other's experiences with Ford, especially engines and transmissions, I don't see anything wrong with her opinion. After my Taurus experience, it'll be a cold day in you-know-where before I buy another Ford. My cousins go through Cadillac and Lincoln engines like I change oil. Best friend F150 ejected a spark plug on the drive home. Don't get me started on Chrysler products (including my own).

Also my Honda and my Toyota seem totally unafraid of being stereotyped by their stereotypically ultra-reliable behavior.

Queue typical, ultimately useless thread full of anecdotes (like mine) and opinions.

Let her buy what she wants, and then you won't be to blame when it all blows up.


Well said.
 
I guess it all depends. All the fords we had growing up were good vehicles. Still have one. My sisters focus has been good. She got it with 80k miles and it now has 160k. It needs motor mounts bad. Thats about it. My boss swore his son's taurus was going to explode once it reached 100k. His other son still drives it. My brothers land cruiser was a beast and his 1993 accord was a great car. My dad's chevy tahoe from 1998 was a total piece. Some are good some are bad.
 
Those Zetec engines would run forever in the Focus. Only problem for me was the rest of the car kept having constant problems after 80k. I had an 04 Focus and 06 Focus. Got rid of 06 after transmission failure at 89k. Even had it serviced at dealer every 30k. 04 kept going without transmission failure up to 155k when I got rid of it. But I was on my 3rd alternator and had replaced a lot of things. My 93 S10 has held up better than any of the Focuses. In my experience it seems those front wheel drive smaller cars just aren't put together that well. Including the Hyundai Accent I got now that has been at the dealer 4 times before they would replace what needed to be replaced. Only after getting corporate involved & an engineer/upper level tech going out to do it from corporate. I'm sure it will be scrap before this 93 S10 is.
 
03 expedition,198k trouble free miles,all but the mini relay that controls the fuel pump mounted on the fuse box!
 
Yep, loyalty to any brand will do that.....

Would really love to get a new Focus hatch. Looks great, drives to my liking..

But I just can't deal with the dual clutch trans. I finding even folks who have the 17s are still having issues!

No other issues, but to me that is a huge reason not to buy one....
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Our '97 Aerostar was easily as reliable and trouble-free as any Honda out to thirteen years and 175K.


As my three kids grew up, we owned a total of four Aerostar vans. Each of them made it to 250K miles or more without an engine failure. Two of them rusted out and one of them needed four tires and a complete front end rebuild as my excuses to retire them. My wife still misses our Aerostars. So using the same data analysis as a lot of other posters on this subject, the Ford Aerostar was the most reliable vehicle ever made, LOL!
 
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