Top Tier 87 still pinging/spark knock

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2004 Nissan Frontier - 4 cyl - KA24DE engine- 120K

I have been buying Shell 93 for about a year and the truck runs great and doesn't ping during uphill acceleration, but the 93 octane is about 50 cents more/gallon and I have been thinking this is overkill. Last week I filled up with Valero 87 (top tier gas sticker on the pump). Well now the truck is back to pinging under acceleration on hills etc..

I guess I thought the 87 would not ping since it was top tier but it does.
I have seen all over these forums where buying 93 octane is a waste of money for a truk such as mine.

Thoughts?
 
Top Tier doesn't affect the octane level, and I guess the 93 is not a waste if it makes your truck run better.
Do you have a mid grade you can try using? Might save you some money compared to 93 and still stop your pinging.
 
Higher octane in a car not specified for higher octane is a bandaid fix for spark knock. Your cylinders might have carbon deposits.
 
I understand top tier doesn't affect the octane rating - but it does mean better quality gas.. The owners manual does say a little pinging is natural and ok but I hate the sound..
 
While I agree that you shouldn't need anything higher than 87 octane, there might be something else that needs attention that is causing the pinging. Also, I don't think being Top Tier affects the ping. Maybe there's a bunch of carbon build up?
 
Carbon deposits - I do 99 percent city driving in Dallas. How do I remove the carbon?
 
Originally Posted By: kpatter
Carbon deposits - I do 99 percent city driving in Dallas. How do I remove the carbon?

I might get yelled at, but I've used both seafoam and careful distilled water ingestion into the intake to clean up cylinders. The water ingestion method won't leave deposits on your spark plugs but you need to be careful not to suck too much in at one time. You typically do it by attaching a vacuum line to a container with Seafoam or water in it, with the engine warm and running. Let the engine suck up a cup or so, then shut it down for ten minutes. Start it again. Drive it aggressively and enjoy the smoke out of the tailpipe, then repeat until satisfied, and then change your oil if you want to be extra safe. Done.
 
Originally Posted By: kpatter
Carbon deposits - I do 99 percent city driving in Dallas. How do I remove the carbon?


You could try slowly dribble in Seafoam or even just plain water into a vacuum line. Check out youtube. A slower approach would be to add a heavy dose of a PEA based cleaner like Techron into the gas.

I think that Top Tier mostly specifies that there are minimum levels of detergent in the gas, not much else about the gas itself.
 
Id dose it with techron or guaranteed to pass in 2 tanks one after another and see how it does on 87 after. If still no good, try 89 octane and see how it does. Worst case ur stuck using 93. Are u sure its pinging that you hear?
 
With all respect, I don't think a cure in a bottle gas additive will fix his problem; it will just erode the deposits in his bank account
lol.gif
 
Below is a copy from the owners manual...


However, now and then you may notice light spark knock for a short time while accelerating or driving uphills .This is not a cause for concern, because you get the greatest fuel benefit when there is light spark knock for a short time under heavy engine load.
 
If a drink of water and high octane fuel doesn't stop the ping then check for KR, knock sensor might be on its way out. Manually check timing in case the dizzy or the trigger wheel has slipped.

Otherwise colder plugs, low temp stat, then remap for less advance.
 
Originally Posted By: kpatter
Below is a copy from the owners manual...


However, now and then you may notice light spark knock for a short time while accelerating or driving uphills .This is not a cause for concern, because you get the greatest fuel benefit when there is light spark knock for a short time under heavy engine load.

Sometimes what they say in the owners manual doesn't jive well with extended post-warranty longevity.
What I've learned is that knock causes a shock to the cylinder it occurs in. It damages the conrod and piston of the affected cylinder, damages bearing surfaces, damages head gasket material, and is every last bit of undesirable in a traditional gas motor. It is also distressing to nearby wild rabbits, increases the driver's blood pressure, and can cause a check engine light to appear.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Top Tier doesn't affect the octane level...


Exactly
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Top Tier doesn't affect the octane level...


Exactly


I understand - I just thought top tier rating, being a better quality gas, might stop the spark knock.
 
Like someone above said-Shell V-Power, and a big bottle of Techron, both added to a nearly empty fuel tank, drive it like you stole it (the Italian tune up)-you might be surprised! Otherwise it'll take water, blasting with walnut shells, or even possibly scraping it out by hand to get the piston deposits off.
 
Originally Posted By: kpatter
2004 Nissan Frontier - 4 cyl - KA24DE engine- 120K

I have been buying Shell 93 for about a year and the truck runs great and doesn't ping during uphill acceleration, but the 93 octane is about 50 cents more/gallon and I have been thinking this is overkill. Last week I filled up with Valero 87 (top tier gas sticker on the pump). Well now the truck is back to pinging under acceleration on hills etc..

I guess I thought the 87 would not ping since it was top tier but it does.
I have seen all over these forums where buying 93 octane is a waste of money for a truk such as mine.

Thoughts?



If you normally run Top Tier fuel (any octane) in this vehicle, I would say the chances of significant carbon buildup are low. That's the whole upside to Top Tier from what I understand - it's got unicorn dust baked into it which prevents carbon deposits from forming and will also remove any already there, though at a very slow rate I believe, relatively speaking.

I agree that based upon the limited information available here, carbon buildup (and the higher compression that comes with that as a side effect) would be the first culprit that comes to mind. But there's no reason to start dumping chemicals and/or water down your engine's gaping maw in an effort to address the carbon buildup, if the real villain is something else that just very adept at making us think it's carbon buildup.

And if you normally run Top Tier fuel, I don't see how any carbon would get a foot-hold to start building up to the levels necessary to cause this kind of trouble, much less avoid getting slowly dissolved before it could even start wreaking havoc.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Nuke
Originally Posted By: kpatter
2004 Nissan Frontier - 4 cyl - KA24DE engine- 120K

I have been buying Shell 93 for about a year and the truck runs great and doesn't ping during uphill acceleration, but the 93 octane is about 50 cents more/gallon and I have been thinking this is overkill. Last week I filled up with Valero 87 (top tier gas sticker on the pump). Well now the truck is back to pinging under acceleration on hills etc..

I guess I thought the 87 would not ping since it was top tier but it does.
I have seen all over these forums where buying 93 octane is a waste of money for a truk such as mine.

Thoughts?



If you normally run Top Tier fuel (any octane) in this vehicle, I would say the chances of significant carbon buildup are low. That's the whole upside to Top Tier from what I understand - it's got unicorn dust baked into it which prevents carbon deposits from forming and will also remove any already there, though at a very slow rate I believe, relatively speaking.

I agree that based upon the limited information available here, carbon buildup (and the higher compression that comes with that as a side effect) would be the first culprit that comes to mind. But there's no reason to start dumping chemicals and/or water down your engine's gaping maw in an effort to address the carbon buildup, if the real villain is something else that just very adept at making us think it's carbon buildup.

And if you normally run Top Tier fuel, I don't see how any carbon would get a foot-hold to start building up to the levels necessary to cause this kind of trouble, much less avoid getting slowly dissolved before it could even start wreaking havoc.

Dude's car is 13 years old and he does 99 percent city driving. That would provide reasonable enough suspicion of carbon deposits.
 
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