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Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline #4461668
07/17/17 11:29 AM
07/17/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
Link

They don't give a link to the study, but I recall reading about the PM issue back in '03 when I was looking to buy my diesel car. I was surprised that no one mentioned it during dieselgate. I suspect though that diesel is simply on its way out, gasser's are cranking up the torque--and batteries are simply moving along now too.

Quote:

Diesel cars might be the best bet for the environment, according to a new study.

An international team of researchers have discovered that modern diesel cars emit less pollution than gasoline-based cars, which could result in regulators shifting their focus to gasoline-powered cars and other sources of air pollution.

“Diesel has a bad reputation because you can see the pollution but it's actually the invisible pollution that comes from gasoline in cars that's worse,” Université de Montréal scientist Patrick Hayes said in a statement. “The next step should be to focus on gasoline or removing old diesel vehicles from the road.

“Modern diesel vehicles have adopted new standards and are now very clean, so attention needs to now turn to regulating on-road and off-road gasoline engines more,” he added. “That's really the next target.”

The researchers, hailing from Switzerland, Norway, Canada, France and the U.S., examined carbonaceous particulate matter(PM)—made of black carbon, primary organic aerosol and secondary organic aerosol—emitted from the tailpipes of cars.

PM is known to contain harmful reactive oxygen species and can damage lung tissue.

Diesel cars have been equipped with diesel particle filters in recent years to significantly cut down on the pollution they emit.

The researchers found that gasoline cars emitted on average 10 times more carbonaceous PM at 22 degrees Celsius and 62 times more at -7 degrees Celsius when compared to diesel cars.

According to the study, the increase in emissions at lower temperatures is due a more pronounced cold-start effect where a gasoline engine is less efficient because it has yet to warm up and its catalytic converter is not yet on.

The researchers also used previous research by Hayes where in 2010 he analyzed the air coming from traffic–heavy Los Angeles drawn through a tube in the roof of a modified construction trailer.



2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 187k, his
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461670
07/17/17 11:30 AM
07/17/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,941
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline
motor_oil_madman  Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,941
Houston, Texas
I see tons of diesel vehicles, atleast trucks


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461685
07/17/17 11:42 AM
07/17/17 11:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,106
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,106
Northern Ontario, Canada
“Modern diesel vehicles have adopted new standards and are now very clean, so attention needs to now turn to regulating on-road and off-road gasoline engines more,” he added. “That's really the next target.”
If they are capable of meeting the standards. Just see the scandals around VW/FCA/Other diesels. Be prepared for gasoline engines being required to fit particulate filters and resulting extra costs upfront and for maintenance. I run a fleet of DPF equipped diesels. "it ain't cheap".


2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461716
07/17/17 12:14 PM
07/17/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Nobody even wants the new diesels. A new business has developed out of finding Cat C-15s and Cummins N14s and rebuilding them for installation in Glider kits.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461730
07/17/17 12:22 PM
07/17/17 12:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Gas engines are still getting better every year and they're all over the place.


Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4461738
07/17/17 12:28 PM
07/17/17 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
I see tons of diesel vehicles, atleast trucks


But did diesel truck sales ever tank like diesel cars? Seems like they have just had a small growth rate since the 80's (light trucks anyhow).


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 187k, his
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461784
07/17/17 01:03 PM
07/17/17 01:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Quote:
“Modern diesel vehicles have adopted new standards and are now very clean, so attention needs to now turn to regulating on-road and off-road gasoline engines more,” he added. “That's really the next target.”

Apart from the issue with diesel engines, I'm troubled by the statement suggesting gasoline engines need further regulation on emissions. They passed the cost/benefit point long ago with automobiles. Gasoline engines emissions are incredibly clean. It takes too much cost, effort, and technology to squeeze out the last bits of emissions... effort and cost that can be placed more effectively elsewhere.

In some hot spots in the country, now lawn mowers, OPEs, and barbecues are becoming more significant in polluting the skies. They really need to leave cars alone. They do it because it's such an easy and familiar target, not because it's needed.

Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461863
07/17/17 01:48 PM
07/17/17 01:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
Diesel is now a dirty word inside the EU.

Currently the Politicos are blaming diesel cars for everything.

The biggest one is fine particulates which get much firther into the lungs than soot.

There is talk of diesels getting banned from Cities in Europe. Euro 6 have Adblue.

In London they are hitting any diesel that isn't Euro 6 with an emissions tax in Central London.


16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461879
07/17/17 02:02 PM
07/17/17 02:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,519
NH
I recall something about particulate matter--supposedly gasoline cars have much smaller PM than diesel did. Hence gas powered cars were worse.

But with DI gasoline is now having larger particulates. I think it has to do with less time to atomize. So what I recall being true a few years ago wouldn't be true today.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 187k, his
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4461958
07/17/17 03:29 PM
07/17/17 03:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,649
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,649
Balearic Islands , Spain
Diesel engines usually produce less Co2 than Gasoline engines of the same displacement, but more NoX and Soot and other nasties.

Modern DPFs and various other systems have made Diesel engines much cleaner than they used to be, but the VW scandal has completely tarnished the image of ALL diesels.

The problem large European cities like Paris, Barcelona and Madrid is that since there are so many diesel cars on the road because Diesel is cheaper than Petrol, there is a real probelm with NoX levels, as NoX is harmful to humans.

Personally the first time i drove a modern VW 2.0 TDI i loved it, the torque is just amazing for a 2.0L.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4462000
07/17/17 04:04 PM
07/17/17 04:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Why don't we see Priuses (Priii?) with little 1 liter diesels that run at a constant RPM?

A little Kubota D905 puts out really decent torque and barely sips the fuel at rated power.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: supton] #4462078
07/17/17 05:30 PM
07/17/17 05:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
bioburner Offline
bioburner  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,418
Minnesota
Thing is what environmental impact is there in the production of those rare earth magnets and lithium batteries?



97 Ford E350 D,99 F350 dually D
13 Scion Xb
12 Ford Transit Connect
06 Nissan Xterra
03 K1200 BMW
07 Kawasaki KLR650
13 Madass
Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: Linctex] #4462191
07/17/17 07:03 PM
07/17/17 07:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Why don't we see Priuses (Priii?) with little 1 liter diesels that run at a constant RPM?

A little Kubota D905 puts out really decent torque and barely sips the fuel at rated power.


A diesel in a Prius might not work too well. A diesel works best when it's warmed up and run at full operating temperature and when done, shut off. A diesel might not work well in this age of strict emission control with a lot of cold starts and stops before completely warming up.

Toyota goes to a lot of trouble taking hot coolant away at run time to store in a thermos. The ICE will also be started and run when needed to keep temps up even if you don't need charging or motion but only for the time needed for heat. A diesel might not fare so well.

Re: Diesel better for enviroment than gasoline [Re: OneEyeJack] #4462310
07/17/17 09:32 PM
07/17/17 09:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,391
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,391
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
... Toyota goes to a lot of trouble taking hot coolant away at run time to store in a thermos. ...
Not since the 2009 models.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

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