Late '60's National Guard Tank?

[Stelth]

When I was a youngster, we moved around a bit, including living in Marietta, Ohio, for a few years from approx. 1968-1972. One vivid memory I have is of seeing a tank in a parade while we were there. Later in the day, this tank came down the street I lived on, and turned into the Ashland station on the corner. Several of us kids ran down to see what was happening, as you would expect, and one of the soldiers was putting the gasoline nozzle into the tank. All of the kids were astonished that a vehicle could hold fourteen dollars worth (!) of gasoline. Of course, that was probably just enough to get back to the armory.

Do you think this would have been an M-46? Maybe M-47? It obviously was powered by a gasoline engine, so I'm thinking probably one of the early Pattons.

 

[simple_gifts]

I was unaware that M60 tanks were called Patton. According to wikipedia, everything was a Patton tank lol

 

[Stelth]

I think the M46 thru M48 were officially called Pattons, but the M60 was not officially a Patton. People call it that anyway.

 

[97K15004WD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M48_Patton

 

[gman2304]

I wonder if it could have been a WWII vintage Sherman, since they were pumping gas, not diesel into it.

 

[Camprunner]

It was most likely a M48 Patton tank possibly a M48 A3 pretty common in the National Guard back then. M47's were not in the field long they had issues and were updated rather quickly to M48 status. Prob a bit to early to be a M60 for the NG.

 

[Linctex]

The M24 Chaffee had DUAL Cadillac flathead V8 engines

The Ford GAA engine was an all-aluminum 32-valve DOHC 60-degree V8 engine (1,100 cu in) in M4 tanks

 

[Stelth]

Definitely not a Sherman. Based on Camprunner's post above, I'm leaning toward M48, and I seem to remember the back of the tank having a flat grille-like cover, like the Continental V-12 powered tanks have.

 

[khittner]

I don't think the Army used gasoline in tanks after WWII---too volatile for surviveability.

 

[oil_film_movies]

If the tank was too big and heavy, you couldn't take it around normal asphalt streets and concrete at gas stations without ground damage.
Therefore, I think they had an old WWII-leftover gasoline powered Sherman, small enough, just barely.


Patton Tank: 95,000 lbs
Sherman Tank: 65,000 lbs

 

[L_Sludger]

If it was fueled with gas I think it was probably an old Ronson.

 

[Camprunner]

Actually the early M48 Patton tank had a gas powered Continental And later models were Diesel powered actually multi fuel so they could have also ran Karosene I have seen M48's and M60 tanks drive on the street when I was little (early 70's) Current M1 tanks will definitely mess up the roads at 120-130,000 pounds. Yes I'm a tank nut ever since I was a kid!

 

[gman2304]

https://www.aaftankmuseum.com/


If you're a tank nut, you'll love this one in Danville, Va if you're ever in the area. I spent a day there a few years ago, and still didn't see it all! They have 'car crushing' demonstrations in the summer months.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
If the tank was too big and heavy, you couldn't take it around normal asphalt streets and concrete at gas stations without ground damage.
Therefore, I think they had an old WWII-leftover gasoline powered Sherman, small enough, just barely.
Patton Tank: 95,000 lbs
Sherman Tank: 65,000 lbs

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Actually the early M48 Patton tank had a gas powered Continental And later models were Diesel powered actually multi fuel so they could have also ran Karosene I have seen M48's and M60 tanks drive on the street when I was little (early 70's) Current M1 tanks will definitely mess up the roads at 120-130,000 pounds. Yes I'm a tank nut ever since I was a kid!


The Patton M48 is right on the edge of what can work on most streets.
Say the civil engineers design a road for twice the load (safety margin) of a typical 18-wheeler's 4,250 lb per tire:

That means 8,500 lbs per pressure point. Both the Sherman and Patton has 12 pressure points, meaning the Patton is at 8,000 lbs per point!! Thats going to expose any flaws in the road for sure. Its possible of course to do, but the City Engineer would need to swallow the liability for cracks or sewer collapse.
Note the Sherman would come in at 5,000 lbs per point, well under the typical 8,500 design limit.

 

[Camprunner]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
https://www.aaftankmuseum.com/


If you're a tank nut, you'll love this one in Danville, Va if you're ever in the area. I spent a day there a few years ago, and still didn't see it all! They have 'car crushing' demonstrations in the summer months.


Thank you so much for posting this it looks like me and a friend are going to try and make it to this museum before Summer's end it looks quite interesting.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

If you are ever in the Chicago area and have some spare time, there is a small but fascinating display of tanks at the Cantigny museum in Wheaton (Big Red One focused as Col McCormick of the Tribune was in that division). My favorite is a very rare Super Pershing, an uparmored M26 with a really long barreled 90mm cannon. Somehow, it looks even badder that the M1 Abrams to me...

Probably not worth a special trip to Chicago, but well worth visiting if you're already there.

 

[Stelth]

The lowest ground pressure I've seen listed for a Sherman is 13.7 psi, while an M48A2 shows 11.8 psi. In any case, the National Guard wouldn't have been using a Sherman in '68 or '69.

Camprunner, thanks for your comments. Sounds like you know your tanks. I'm leaning toward the M48.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The last gas-powered tank the US fielded was the M48A2, in regular units to 1968. (The A3 had diesel power.) Most diesel M48s were actually older tanks that had been converted.

 

[Nickdfresh]

No way it was a Sherman in '68, unless it was sort of a PR mascot tank. Candidates besides the above Patton series (M-46/M-47/M-48A1/A3/A5, M-60/A1/A3 series), there was also the M-41 Walker Bulldog light tank. The US Army was giving up on both light and heavy tanks by the early 60's and going to the medium/Main Battle Tank types, but some M-41's were transferred to the Nat'l Guard. The M-551 Sheridan replaced the M-41 as a light tank because it could be actually deployed by airborne forces, which the M-41 couldn't making it too heavy for the 82nd but too light to actually fight in Europe in the armored cav. Nevertheless, the M-41 was popular in Asia and the South Vietnamese knocked out several NVA T-54/55's with it and the Taiwanese still use (a very updated version of) it. Initially it had a gas engine, later most improved versions went to one of several various diesel engines...

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Stelth
The lowest ground pressure I've seen listed for a Sherman is 13.7 psi, while an M48A2 shows 11.8 psi. In any case, the National Guard wouldn't have been using a Sherman in '68 or '69. Camprunner, thanks for your comments. Sounds like you know your tanks. I'm leaning toward the M48.


That ground pressure is an average value, and the actual forces are very spikey over hard flat ground, with 6 bogies per side pressing down.

For a parade, to use a Sherman would have meant the National Gaurd had an old one that was still working, or a private collector had a decomissioned one he trotted out for events.

Hee-hee, for example, where did Jim Rockford get his tank in 1984? "Zack (the Rockford Files guy) owns a vintage Sherman tank from World War II that he has restored with his younger son's help, and he uses it for parades and public relations."