PP EURO 0W30 for a GOLF R?

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Oh god, don't ask sales or a service advisor, your odds of getting the correct answer are slim. Even asking the techs is hit and miss. We had a newer BMW in our shop, sales, the advisor, parts AND the tech all wanted to just put our Honda bulk 5W20 in it. I had to step in a explain LL-01. Nobody in parts had even heard of needing to meet a spec for oil.


Exactly. There's only a couple BMW techs here I go to for advice, both own their own shops.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
502 and 504 and 505 and 507 (have I missed any) have been around for years and yet I still see conflicting posts regarding "backwards compatibility"

.


Exactly. This question is best answered by VW USA corporate (not a dealership).

No it is not best answered by VW USA.
New guidelines regarding sulfur level in the U.S. are only that: guidelines. They are NOT mandatory.
Castrol 0W40 in Wal Mart is the way to go in R.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
504 is backward compatible with 502, so you should be OK. It is a fine oil.


That appears to be the case.
540 meets or exceeds 502 in all VW oil performance categories - mostly exceeds them.

The following clarification of VW oil spec' may be useful:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php

 

[dparm]

Doesn't your Golf R have no-cost maintenance? Why not just let the dealer put in an approved oil and filter at no cost to you?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Doesn't your Golf R have no-cost maintenance? Why not just let the dealer put in an approved oil and filter at no cost to you?


Not in Canada. As I recall we get the extra year of new car warranty (4 vs 3) and maybe American purchasers get the "oil and filter" service free of charge.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
504 is backward compatible with 502, so you should be OK. It is a fine oil.


That appears to be the case.
540 meets or exceeds 502 in all VW oil performance categories - mostly exceeds them.

The following clarification of VW oil spec' may be useful:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


It is in Europe where sulfur level is up to 10ppm, but mostly lower. Also, due to NoX requirements, EU vehicles have different burn.
All VW owners in North America should stick to VW 502.00 or 505.01, and not any VW 502.00 but those meeting also MB 229.5 so that NOACK % are below 10%. ll this is addressed on BITOG numerous times.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: dparm
Doesn't your Golf R have no-cost maintenance? Why not just let the dealer put in an approved oil and filter at no cost to you?


Not in Canada. As I recall we get the extra year of new car warranty (4 vs 3) and maybe American purchasers get the "oil and filter" service free of charge.

Considering USA owners are getting Castrol 5W40 consider yourself lucky not to have "free" maintenance.

 

[drtyler]

Free maintenance at our VW dealer is Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Just had 1st free dealer oil change last week.

Probably depends on the dealership, although VW does recommend the Castrol 5W-40.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: dparm
Doesn't your Golf R have no-cost maintenance? Why not just let the dealer put in an approved oil and filter at no cost to you?


Not in Canada. As I recall we get the extra year of new car warranty (4 vs 3) and maybe American purchasers get the "oil and filter" service free of charge.

Considering USA owners are getting Castrol 5W40 consider yourself lucky not to have "free" maintenance.

 

[Delta]

To further confuse things, the underhood label on my GTI states "Use only oil that expressly complies with VW 502."

But the owners manual states (which is for the Golf, Golf GTI, or Golf R) 502, 503, or 504. Honestly, if it meets those, use it. Now, I'm partial to Castrol Edge 0w40 myself and is what alot of others use.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
504 is backward compatible with 502, so you should be OK. It is a fine oil.


That appears to be the case.
540 meets or exceeds 502 in all VW oil performance categories - mostly exceeds them.

The following clarification of VW oil spec' may be useful:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


It is in Europe where sulfur level is up to 10ppm, but mostly lower. Also, due to NoX requirements, EU vehicles have different burn.
All VW owners in North America should stick to VW 502.00 or 505.01, and not any VW 502.00 but those meeting also MB 229.5 so that NOACK % are below 10%. ll this is addressed on BITOG numerous times.

You haven't addressed the fact that 504 matches or outperforms 502 and 505.
PP Euro LX 0W-30 also has MB certification.

 

[Hounds]

21 Rouge: A few thoughts. First, neat, neat car. If you haven't bought your R yet, were I you I'd wait for the 2018 R to enjoy the digital dash and, if you're not an MT guy, the 7-spd DSG. I also like the appearance and lighting changes coming. Additionally, we are late enough in the year that, for me, 2018 makes sense.

Second, have you been over to vwvortex.com and Golfmk7.com? I ask because I'd be willing to bet the answer you are going to get from a host of R owners regarding the use of PP 0W30 is "yes, PP EURO 0W30 is a quality product, but it's not a true 502 spec oil nor the weight oil VW specifies -- which is either 5W40 or 0W40 -- so why would you not spend few extra Canadian dollars and use the products recommended when you are running in a new R motor?" Finally, I'm certain you'll be told l'huile de jour for the R is either M1 0W40 or Castrol 0W40.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
21 Rouge: A few thoughts. First, neat, neat car. If you haven't bought your R yet, were I you I'd wait for the 2018 R to enjoy the digital dash and, if you're not an MT guy, the 7-spd DSG.


Thanks and yup it is an 18 on order. We did select the MT but only for the lower initial cost and lesser maintenance (as compared to the DSG). But lots of what I have read indicates that the this DSG transmission is outstanding mated to this car).

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Second, have you been over to vwvortex.com and Golfmk7.com? I ask because I'd be willing to bet the answer you are going to get from a host of R owners regarding the use of PP 0W30


Good idea for sure (and I did post similarly) and still there is that talk about a 0W being a 'thin' oil

.

Originally Posted By: Hounds
"yes, PP EURO 0W30 is a quality product, but it's not a true 502 spec oil nor the weight oil VW specifies -- which is either 5W40 or 0W40 --


And yet it is far from clear that it must be a 502. Hence this thread.

(For sure I know that M1 0W40 is an excellent oil but again VW seems to make it less than clear that one can use a 0WXX in any situation for this car).

 

[dbias]

I bought a 2017 A4 with my TDI buyback money. There is a sticker in engine bay Waring to only use oil meeting VW 502/504 oil standards.
Regardless I will be using castrol 0w-40, or maybe Ravenol lol

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: dbias
I bought a 2017 A4. There is a sticker in engine bay Waring to only use oil meeting VW 502/504 oil standards.


So you are good to go with the PP EURO LX 0W30 if you so choose, as it is an approved 504 oil.

 

[NGRhodes]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Changed recently (not sure if fully rolled out yet) sulphur levels are now supposed to be same as Europe now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur


That's not entirely true. The way I understand the new Rule to work is that it will allow sulfur offsetting credits for producers. Changing production and refining equipment will take years. Therefore, you're very likely NOT getting ultra low sulfur gasoline anytime soon. Here is the final Final Rule published by the EPA if you need some help sleeping. 838 pages!

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.


Missed this reply, thanks for the clarification !

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge

(For sure I know that M1 0W40 is an excellent oil but again VW seems to make it less than clear that one can use a 0WXX in any situation for this car).

You can't generalize by grade and it's a mistake to even try. Every oil, whether it's a 0W-XX or 5W-XX must be judged on it's own performance which is exactly VW does.
Of all the oils that have VW certification whether they are 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40 fall into a very narrow viscosity band straddling the borderline between a heavy 30 grade and light 40 grade. All the 30 grade oils have a HTHSV of at least 3.5cP and the 40 grade oil are all in the 3.6cP-3.7cP range and perhaps as heavy as 3.8cP although I haven't found in a quick search.
OW-XX oils tend to have better viscometrics but may be more shear prone but that's entirely dependant on how well the oil is formulated. And in choosing a 5W-40 based on the grade alone is a guarantee of one thing only; namely, that it will be heavier on start-up than a 0W-30 but not that it's in-service viscosity at operating temp's will be heavier.

Consequently my preference would be to choose one of the lighter 0W-30 oil grades recommended, especially for a street use only vehicle, knowing there is no way you're going to test VW's minimum viscosity requirements, the margins are that high.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
504 is backward compatible with 502, so you should be OK. It is a fine oil.


That appears to be the case.
540 meets or exceeds 502 in all VW oil performance categories - mostly exceeds them.

The following clarification of VW oil spec' may be useful:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


It is in Europe where sulfur level is up to 10ppm, but mostly lower. Also, due to NoX requirements, EU vehicles have different burn.
All VW owners in North America should stick to VW 502.00 or 505.01, and not any VW 502.00 but those meeting also MB 229.5 so that NOACK % are below 10%. ll this is addressed on BITOG numerous times.

You haven't addressed the fact that 504 matches or outperforms 502 and 505.
PP Euro LX 0W-30 also has MB certification.

So it has MB 229.51 certification? And? Lot of other oils meet MB 229.51 or MB229.5 (229.5 actually has tougher deposit requirements). What does that mean when it comes to high sulfur gas? VW 504.00/507.00 have tougher requirements when it comes to protection in 0/5W30 grade as VW504.00/507.00 are ONLY certified in those grades and not 0/5W40. Other then having advantage over VW 502.00/505.01 in 0/5W30 grade, VW504.00/507.00 do not have any advantage when it comes to protection over 0/5W40 oils that meet for sake of argument MB 229.51 or MB 229.5 (since you mentioned that). Where VW504.00/507.00 has advantage over VW502.00/505.01 is protection of emission system. Also, NOACK requirements on 504/507 are not too stringent on NOACK as for example MB 229.51.
However, all that on a side, in North American market, VW504.00/507.00 is worse choice then 502/505.01.
I did UOA on my Tiguan and CC 2.0T that I owned before trying Mobil1 5W30 ESP, and it could barely do 3K miles.
So, to simplify things, VW504.00/507.00 does not outperforms VW502.00/505.01 in North American market. In EU yes, in NA no.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Consequently my preference would be to choose one of the lighter 0W-30 oil grades recommended, especially for a street use only vehicle, knowing there is no way you're going to test VW's minimum viscosity requirements, the margins are that high.

I thought you got lost, buried under a pallet of high VI oils that fell onto you.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

VW 504.00/507.00 have tougher requirements when it comes to protection in 0/5W30 grade as VW504.00/507.00 are ONLY certified in those grades and not 0/5W40.

Thanks for clarifying that.
All the more reason to use just a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil grade which this thread is about.

BTW, would be interested in reviewing that 3,000 mile UOA you mentioned.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Consequently my preference would be to choose one of the lighter 0W-30 oil grades recommended, especially for a street use only vehicle, knowing there is no way you're going to test VW's minimum viscosity requirements, the margins are that high.

I thought you got lost, buried under a pallet of high VI oils that fell onto you.

Since high VI oils are so much "lighter" that wouldn't happen...right?

Doug's (21Rouge) a friend and asked for my input; hence for my posting in this thread.
There are a couple of new oils on the market that have caught my attention. When I get the time I'll post start a post.