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AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history #4459290
07/14/17 01:29 PM
07/14/17 01:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
CharlieBauer Offline OP
CharlieBauer  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
This has hardly been in the news.

The closest distance between AC759 and the 4 aircraft that it overflew was just 29ft.

Here is a link to an official report:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3894502/NTSB-Report.pdf


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459302
07/14/17 01:39 PM
07/14/17 01:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,754
Michigan
Greggy_D Online content
Greggy_D  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,754
Michigan
Actually it was 100 feet vertically and 29 feet laterally.

"It is estimated that ACA759 overflew the first two aircraft by 100 feet, the third one by 200 feet and the
last one by 300 feet."


Greggy D.

Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459320
07/14/17 01:56 PM
07/14/17 01:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline
john_pifer  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?


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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459321
07/14/17 01:56 PM
07/14/17 01:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,845
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,845
Idaho
There wasn't a crash though.


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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459323
07/14/17 01:56 PM
07/14/17 01:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,805
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,805
Virginia Beach
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.

Just ask Asiana Airlines - flight 214 was on a clear day, no weather, but the usual SFO "slam dunk" clearance for a visual.

Which turned out to be more than they were able to handle.

Last edited by Astro14; 07/14/17 01:57 PM.

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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: john_pifer] #4459335
07/14/17 02:12 PM
07/14/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?

Reports here said there were 4 "wide body" passenger jets waiting for take off.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-sfo-taxiway-1.4198946

Quote:
"If it is true, what happened probably came close to the greatest aviation disaster in history," said retired United Airlines Capt. Ross Aimer, CEO of Aero Consulting Experts.

"If you could imagine an Airbus colliding with four passenger aircraft wide bodies, full of fuel and passengers, then you can imagine how horrific this could have been," he said.


Seems like a few pilot errors, but if you listen to the voice recorder the pilot seems pretty calm.


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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459338
07/14/17 02:17 PM
07/14/17 02:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,805
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,805
Virginia Beach
Also, the linked document is a typical ATC CYA report.

The controller was "coordinating with another agency".

I.E. they were on the phone, not looking at the runway or AC 759. Not watching the operation for which they were responsible.

It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.


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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459341
07/14/17 02:19 PM
07/14/17 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,080
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,080
Occupied Virginia
While I agree that a crash under those circumstances would have been bad, I'm a little tired of the news outlets exaggerating how bad it could have been and that absolutely everyone on all five planes would have been killed.

Lots of people dead, sure, but not EVERYONE.

Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14] #4459342
07/14/17 02:19 PM
07/14/17 02:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
CharlieBauer Offline OP
CharlieBauer  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
Originally Posted By: Astro14
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.


For the layperson, it's surprising to understand that when AC759 told the control tower that they saw lights on the "runway", the control tower simply told them that the runway was clear.

It was left up to a United pilot on the taxiway to warn the control tower that AC759 was going to land on the taxiway.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14] #4459345
07/14/17 02:22 PM
07/14/17 02:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
CharlieBauer Offline OP
CharlieBauer  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459361
07/14/17 02:43 PM
07/14/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Wouldn't have been as bad as Tenerife


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Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14] #4459384
07/14/17 03:01 PM
07/14/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,475
Arkansas
Win Offline
Win  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,475
Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Astro14
But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.

How much time / distance does it take to stop the sink and establish a positive rate of climb? How much power can they keep up and for how long while on approach?

Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459493
07/14/17 04:58 PM
07/14/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,686
Massachusetts
turtlevette Offline
turtlevette  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,686
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
This has hardly been in the news.

The closest distance between AC759 and the 4 aircraft that it overflew was just 29ft.

Here is a link to an official report:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3894502/NTSB-Report.pdf



That's a pathetic write up. No diagrams.


USA-1
Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459500
07/14/17 05:16 PM
07/14/17 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Ottawa, Ontario
Youppi Offline
Youppi  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Ottawa, Ontario

Last edited by Youppi; 07/14/17 05:19 PM.
Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer] #4459504
07/14/17 05:22 PM
07/14/17 05:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,097
San Antonio, TX
jorton Offline
jorton  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,097
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.

Is that why 759 was lined up on a taxiway? I didn't know this happened at night. It's a miracle disaster was avoided. Miracle translates to 759 crew alertness.


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti


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