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#4459290 - 07/14/17 01:29 PM AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1177
Loc: CA
This has hardly been in the news.

The closest distance between AC759 and the 4 aircraft that it overflew was just 29ft.

Here is a link to an official report:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3894502/NTSB-Report.pdf
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#4459302 - 07/14/17 01:39 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
Greggy_D Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1677
Loc: Michigan
Actually it was 100 feet vertically and 29 feet laterally.

"It is estimated that ACA759 overflew the first two aircraft by 100 feet, the third one by 200 feet and the
last one by 300 feet."
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#4459320 - 07/14/17 01:56 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
john_pifer Offline


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1963
Loc: Nashville, TN via Memphis
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?
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#4459321 - 07/14/17 01:56 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10946
Loc: Idaho
There wasn't a crash though.
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#4459323 - 07/14/17 01:56 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
Astro14 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8533
Loc: Virginia Beach
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.

Just ask Asiana Airlines - flight 214 was on a clear day, no weather, but the usual SFO "slam dunk" clearance for a visual.

Which turned out to be more than they were able to handle.


Edited by Astro14 (07/14/17 01:57 PM)
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#4459335 - 07/14/17 02:12 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: john_pifer]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9092
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?

Reports here said there were 4 "wide body" passenger jets waiting for take off.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-sfo-taxiway-1.4198946

Quote:
"If it is true, what happened probably came close to the greatest aviation disaster in history," said retired United Airlines Capt. Ross Aimer, CEO of Aero Consulting Experts.

"If you could imagine an Airbus colliding with four passenger aircraft wide bodies, full of fuel and passengers, then you can imagine how horrific this could have been," he said.


Seems like a few pilot errors, but if you listen to the voice recorder the pilot seems pretty calm.
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#4459338 - 07/14/17 02:17 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
Astro14 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8533
Loc: Virginia Beach
Also, the linked document is a typical ATC CYA report.

The controller was "coordinating with another agency".

I.E. they were on the phone, not looking at the runway or AC 759. Not watching the operation for which they were responsible.

It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.
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#4459341 - 07/14/17 02:19 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3006
Loc: Occupied Virginia
While I agree that a crash under those circumstances would have been bad, I'm a little tired of the news outlets exaggerating how bad it could have been and that absolutely everyone on all five planes would have been killed.

Lots of people dead, sure, but not EVERYONE.

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#4459342 - 07/14/17 02:19 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1177
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Astro14
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.


For the layperson, it's surprising to understand that when AC759 told the control tower that they saw lights on the "runway", the control tower simply told them that the runway was clear.

It was left up to a United pilot on the taxiway to warn the control tower that AC759 was going to land on the taxiway.
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#4459345 - 07/14/17 02:22 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1177
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.
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#4459361 - 07/14/17 02:43 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
L_Sludger Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 3947
Loc: Ohio
Wouldn't have been as bad as Tenerife
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#4459384 - 07/14/17 03:01 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: Astro14]
Win Offline


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 4446
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Astro14
But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.

How much time / distance does it take to stop the sink and establish a positive rate of climb? How much power can they keep up and for how long while on approach?

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#4459493 - 07/14/17 04:58 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3560
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
This has hardly been in the news.

The closest distance between AC759 and the 4 aircraft that it overflew was just 29ft.

Here is a link to an official report:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3894502/NTSB-Report.pdf



That's a pathetic write up. No diagrams.
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#4459500 - 07/14/17 05:16 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
Youppi Offline


Registered: 11/22/16
Posts: 11
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario


Edited by Youppi (07/14/17 05:19 PM)

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#4459504 - 07/14/17 05:22 PM Re: AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history [Re: CharlieBauer]
jorton Offline


Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 3094
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.

Is that why 759 was lined up on a taxiway? I didn't know this happened at night. It's a miracle disaster was avoided. Miracle translates to 759 crew alertness.
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