SOPUS Calcium Levels A Concern For GDI Engines ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
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I've wondered the same thing as my engine is DI and non turbo but is high compression.
I suppose it depends on the specific engine, butI believe the LSPI risk is generally much lower in a GDI engine that is not turbocharged.
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
Danh : I would sure hope so - I suppose the best way to check is try a SOPUS oil such as PPP or QSUD and see if you get any engine "pinging" ?
Originally Posted By: Danh
I suppose it depends on the specific engine, butI believe the LSPI risk is generally much lower in a GDI engine that is not turbocharged.
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
Originally Posted By: Danh
I suppose it depends on the specific engine, butI believe the LSPI risk is generally much lower in a GDI engine that is not turbocharged.
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Danh : I would sure hope so - I suppose the best way to check is try a SOPUS oil such as PPP or QSUD and see if you get any engine "pinging" ?
Originally Posted By: Danh
I suppose it depends on the specific engine, butI believe the LSPI risk is generally much lower in a GDI engine that is not turbocharged.
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
LSPI is different than the pre ignition or detonation that causes the pinging we're familiar with. LSPI is seemingly random, sudden, of very short duration, potentially very violent and can't be controlled using traditional knock sensors. LSPI doesn't create pinging: if your engine has an LSPI event you may hear or feel nothing or have something catastrophic occur. About all you can do is hope the manufacturer got it right. But again, in the absence of turbocharging it's probably nothing to lose sleep over.
Danh : I would sure hope so - I suppose the best way to check is try a SOPUS oil such as PPP or QSUD and see if you get any engine "pinging" ?
Originally Posted By: Danh
I suppose it depends on the specific engine, butI believe the LSPI risk is generally much lower in a GDI engine that is not turbocharged.
And while it looks like that calcium contributes to LSPI, engine manufacturers are aware of this and also know that calcium is abundant in most current engine oils. So it seems reasonable to assume OEMs program engine behavior to prevent LSPI even when high-calcium add packs are present and there's no reason not to use a SOPUS product (well, other than their virgin low viscosity that gets even lower with GDI fuel dilution...).
LSPI is different than the pre ignition or detonation that causes the pinging we're familiar with. LSPI is seemingly random, sudden, of very short duration, potentially very violent and can't be controlled using traditional knock sensors. LSPI doesn't create pinging: if your engine has an LSPI event you may hear or feel nothing or have something catastrophic occur. About all you can do is hope the manufacturer got it right. But again, in the absence of turbocharging it's probably nothing to lose sleep over.
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All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, timing chain failure, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
In over 25 years never had dry timing mechanism failure w/in service interval. Had a couple three wet timing failure well w/in service interval the past 10 years.
Originally Posted By: KevinP
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
I'm willing to bet the manufacturers have been really caught by surprise over this.
I have no desire to own a DI engine after reading these forums.
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
I'm willing to bet the manufacturers have been really caught by surprise over this.
I have no desire to own a DI engine after reading these forums.
Originally Posted By: KevinP
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, timing chain failure, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
Yeah, but always temper that sentiment by knowing that the average BITOG member who pontificates about these things generally doesn't own a GDI vehicle, has no experience with a GDI vehicle, says they will never buy a GDI vehicle, and yet is strangely up on how prevalent these issues are. Direct injection is always and only VW/Audi from 2002 to them ( because that matches the average age of their cars ) and they likely believe every BG commercial they hear on the radio....
Once you compare that to the current reality experienced by many who've owned a GDI car for at least five years ( like me ) it doesn't seem so bad.
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, timing chain failure, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
Yeah, but always temper that sentiment by knowing that the average BITOG member who pontificates about these things generally doesn't own a GDI vehicle, has no experience with a GDI vehicle, says they will never buy a GDI vehicle, and yet is strangely up on how prevalent these issues are. Direct injection is always and only VW/Audi from 2002 to them ( because that matches the average age of their cars ) and they likely believe every BG commercial they hear on the radio....
Once you compare that to the current reality experienced by many who've owned a GDI car for at least five years ( like me ) it doesn't seem so bad.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Well... evidently the GDI carbon buggaboo has is yet another reason for them to sell us a specialty chemical. I'm all good with technology advances but I'll let others be the beta testers. That is my only point.
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Well... evidently the GDI carbon buggaboo has is yet another reason for them to sell us a specialty chemical. I'm all good with technology advances but I'll let others be the beta testers. That is my only point.
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Well... evidently the GDI carbon buggaboo has is yet another reason for them to sell us a specialty chemical. I'm all good with technology advances but I'll let others be the beta testers. That is my only point.
I own two. And you're welcome.
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: KevinP
Originally Posted By: Rand
Timing chain failure is a modern engine problem???
Hey... it is from the mouth of the additive manufactures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrRuyC4rLI
I don't think he was questioning whether or not it was an issue in new GDI engines, rather pointing out that timing chain failure was a problem long before GDI was widely adopted.
Well... evidently the GDI carbon buggaboo has is yet another reason for them to sell us a specialty chemical. I'm all good with technology advances but I'll let others be the beta testers. That is my only point.
I own two. And you're welcome.
Originally Posted By: Danh
I own two. And you're welcome.
Thanks for taking one for the team. ;-)
I own two. And you're welcome.
Thanks for taking one for the team. ;-)
Yeah, at over 40% of GDI market share for new vehicles in North America you're a regular beta tester...If your friends and co-workers have DI vehicles with 150K miles and no problems when does it become an anecdote and not an anomaly?? It's an honest question...especially on here. It's not exactly like DI is something new within the last two or three model years...or in my case, five years of zero problems with a NA direct injection engine that might be considered a second or third generation DI engine.
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Yeah, at over 40% of GDI market share for new vehicles in North America you're a regular beta tester...If your friends and co-workers have DI vehicles with 150K miles and no problems when does it become an anecdote and not an anomaly?? It's an honest question...especially on here. It's not exactly like DI is something new within the last two or three model years...or in my case, five years of zero problems with a NA direct injection engine that might be considered a second or third generation DI engine.
I suppose it is all relative. But we have a multitude of generations of port injection engines and the rate of change of vehicle technologies stagnated for decades. In comparison....DI is a new technology and the manufacture, oil companies, and service industry all recognize that there are new requirements and challenges with the technology. It isn't a free lunch otherwise we wouldn't be having all these conversations, new testing methodologies and changes in reaction to them.
Yeah, at over 40% of GDI market share for new vehicles in North America you're a regular beta tester...If your friends and co-workers have DI vehicles with 150K miles and no problems when does it become an anecdote and not an anomaly?? It's an honest question...especially on here. It's not exactly like DI is something new within the last two or three model years...or in my case, five years of zero problems with a NA direct injection engine that might be considered a second or third generation DI engine.
I suppose it is all relative. But we have a multitude of generations of port injection engines and the rate of change of vehicle technologies stagnated for decades. In comparison....DI is a new technology and the manufacture, oil companies, and service industry all recognize that there are new requirements and challenges with the technology. It isn't a free lunch otherwise we wouldn't be having all these conversations, new testing methodologies and changes in reaction to them.
Good or bad - there won't be much choice in engines other than GDI moving forward ...
Originally Posted By: KevinP
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, timing chain failure, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
Originally Posted By: KevinP
All the reading about LSPI, DI carbon, timing chain failure, turbos all make me really glad that I didn't buy a "modern" engine.
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