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De-Sludge Procedures #4457998
07/13/17 07:42 AM
07/13/17 07:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Vladiator Offline OP
Vladiator  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
A friend of mine just got a vehicle, ex-rental with some engine sludge seen through the fill hole. Not hard sludge, but more of muddy look to it, not milky - we checked the coolant. Even if it needs a new engine - he still comes out under KBB value of the car.
Anyways, how about this scenario for a crankcase de-sludge procedure?
1) Drain the oil and put a Supertech oil filter on.
2) Fill the crankcase with proper capacity of ATF instead of oil (Supertech ATF is cheap enough to do this. Roughly the price of many engine flush additives anyways. But you get a gallon instead of a few oz.)
3) Run for 30 mins at 1500 RPM.
4) Drain the ATF and change the filter.
5) Fill with Castrol Magnatec 5w30 and oversized Fram Ultra for a 4k-5k OCI.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458003
07/13/17 07:45 AM
07/13/17 07:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
ATF has ZERO, ZAP, NADA in the way of additives and so nothing will be cleaned by using it. You are better off using a good engine flush or removing the valve covers and hosing the heads down with Berryman B-12 Chemtool, then performing a couple of short OCIs afterwards.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458009
07/13/17 07:49 AM
07/13/17 07:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
I wouldn't do any of that with ATF. That's a old wives tale.
Put in a good diesel oil with a SN rating like 10w30 Rotella or 5W40. Run some short oil change intervals. Marvel Mystery oil is Great for cleaning up Varnish but it may loosen that up too. Run 3 1000-1500 mile oil changes and monitor the results. After that go to a Good Quality Synthetic like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum for the final Clean-Up for 3000 miles.
ATF is a terrible idea.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458012
07/13/17 07:53 AM
07/13/17 07:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,982
Onondaga County
Miller88 Online content
Miller88  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,982
Onondaga County
I'd do short OCIs with a cheap synthetic or maybe a diesel oil. Frequent filter changes too. If you dislodge too much, it's going to plug up the oil pickup screen and that will range from not-so-fun to catastrophic.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: 2015_PSD] #4458014
07/13/17 07:54 AM
07/13/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Vladiator Offline OP
Vladiator  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
ATF has ZERO, ZAP, NADA in the way of additives and so nothing will be cleaned by using it. You are better off using a good engine flush or removing the valve covers and hosing the heads down with Berryman B-12 Chemtool, then performing a couple of short OCIs afterwards.

ZERO additives, that show up on a VOA. That's the catch. Many testimonials available on engines becoming nearly spotless and varnish free after occasional substitute of 1qt of ATF instead of 1qt of oil. Also I remember seeing some filters cut up that were filled with sludge after ATF was added to oil, so it does clean something. But I've seen the C&P of the filter here before I became a member on BITOG, and unfortunately was unable to find that post/thread yet. If anyone knows the thread I'm talking about - link would be appreciated.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458016
07/13/17 07:54 AM
07/13/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 234
NorCal
Seventh Offline
Seventh  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 234
NorCal
An old timer I used to work with used the atf method. He would just add 1 quart top off and drive for a few days before changing. Never heard of filling the sump with it. Seems risky.

Maybe just do a real short oci with a can of sea foam or some such in the sump, then another short oci after? Use an hdeo 10w30 for the extra detergency perhaps.

I wouldn't do anything too aggressive. Good oil and reasonable oci intervals will clean it up over time.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458018
07/13/17 07:56 AM
07/13/17 07:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
ATF has ZERO, ZAP, NADA in the way of additives and so nothing will be cleaned by using it. You are better off using a good engine flush or removing the valve covers and hosing the heads down with Berryman B-12 Chemtool, then performing a couple of short OCIs afterwards.
ZERO additives, that show up on a VOA. That's the catch. Many testimonials available on engines becoming nearly spotless ansd varnish free after occasional substitute of 1qt of ATF instead of 1qt of oil. Also I remember seeing some filters cut up that were filled with sludge after ATF was added to oil, so it does clean something. But I've seen the C&P of the filter here before I became a member on BITOG, and unfortunately was unable to find that post/thread yet.
Zero additives period.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: 2015_PSD] #4458021
07/13/17 08:02 AM
07/13/17 08:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Vladiator Offline OP
Vladiator  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Zero additives period.

I REALLY want to request the proof of such statements, but can't because I have a hard time finding that filter post myself, to back up my claims... But any helpful info is still greatly appreciated, if such available. Just no blanket statements please.

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458033
07/13/17 08:20 AM
07/13/17 08:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Sludge in the fill hole doesn't mean it's all over the place--isn't that the worst spot where it builds up?

If it's not that bad I'd just do some short OCI's, working out to where you want it to be at. Check the filter on these short changes, if nothing is showing up then why worry?


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: 2015_PSD] #4458037
07/13/17 08:25 AM
07/13/17 08:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
ATF has ZERO, ZAP, NADA in the way of additives and so nothing will be cleaned by using it. You are better off using a good engine flush or removing the valve covers and hosing the heads down with Berryman B-12 Chemtool, then performing a couple of short OCIs afterwards.
ZERO additives, that show up on a VOA. That's the catch. Many testimonials available on engines becoming nearly spotless ansd varnish free after occasional substitute of 1qt of ATF instead of 1qt of oil. Also I remember seeing some filters cut up that were filled with sludge after ATF was added to oil, so it does clean something. But I've seen the C&P of the filter here before I became a member on BITOG, and unfortunately was unable to find that post/thread yet.
Zero additives period.


2015_PSD,

I understand that ATF does not have additives such as detergents but seem to recall it has "dispersants" which were described to me as a cousin of a detergent.

Is this true?

Anyway, I was told it was this dispersant quality that resulted in ATFs ability to clean.

I am not supporting or recommending its use today with all of the advancements in motor oils (synthetics, etc) but 30 years ago adding a quart of ATF shortly before an oil change was a standard practice with many mechanics I knew. Wasn't there something about Marvel Mystery Oil being nothing more than an ATF is a special package?


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458038
07/13/17 08:25 AM
07/13/17 08:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,183
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,183
Midwest, Illinois
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729268

From Quaker State;
" Myth #12

Adding a quart of ATF the day before an oil change will clean your engine. ATF added to the motor oil will clean the engine due to the high levels of detergent in ATF.

Fact
ATF does not contain detergent chemistry. ATF does contain dispersants, which have properties similar to detergents. But ATF is not formulated to withstand the combustion environment inside the engine. Quaker State® recommends that you keep the fluids where they belong: motor oil in the crankcase, and automatic transmission fluid in the transmission. "


beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458043
07/13/17 08:32 AM
07/13/17 08:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,098
socal
barkingspider Offline
barkingspider  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,098
socal
I would not use ATF in the crankcase. But if you feel that it would help, then go for it and let us know if it works. I have used 5 min flush before without any issues


06 Cadillac Escalade Ext
17 Cadillac ATS (wife)
05 Toyota Camry (daughter)
11 GMC Canyon off-road (daily)
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458045
07/13/17 08:33 AM
07/13/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
A friend of mine just got a vehicle, ex-rental with some engine sludge seen through the fill hole. Not hard sludge, but more of muddy look to it, not milky - we checked the coolant. Even if it needs a new engine - he still comes out under KBB value of the car.
Anyways, how about this scenario for a crankcase de-sludge procedure?
1) Drain the oil and put a Supertech oil filter on.
2) Fill the crankcase with proper capacity of ATF instead of oil (Supertech ATF is cheap enough to do this. Roughly the price of many engine flush additives anyways. But you get a gallon instead of a few oz.)
3) Run for 30 mins at 1500 RPM.
4) Drain the ATF and change the filter.
5) Fill with Castrol Magnatec 5w30 and oversized Fram Ultra for a 4k-5k OCI.


Sounds like a great way to ruin an engine. Why not try a fast flush if you're looking for quick results?


God Bless Our Troops

Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: beanoil] #4458046
07/13/17 08:37 AM
07/13/17 08:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
Originally Posted By: beanoil
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729268

From Quaker State;
" Myth #12

Adding a quart of ATF the day before an oil change will clean your engine. ATF added to the motor oil will clean the engine due to the high levels of detergent in ATF.

Fact
ATF does not contain detergent chemistry. ATF does contain dispersants, which have properties similar to detergents. But ATF is not formulated to withstand the combustion environment inside the engine. Quaker State® recommends that you keep the fluids where they belong: motor oil in the crankcase, and automatic transmission fluid in the transmission. "


Ha!

Its nice to see there are still moments when I am still lucid. smile


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: De-Sludge Procedures [Re: Vladiator] #4458048
07/13/17 08:39 AM
07/13/17 08:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,815
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,815
Katy, Republic of Texas
Just fill it with urine.
The ammonia, urea and low pH in the urine will really clear out all the gunk in there.
If you eat a lot of salty food, that can increase the sodium content of the urine, which is also good for cleaning the engine.
Even better is if you take a lot of calcium supplements the day before you collect the urine, that will get a lot of calcium in the urine as well, again, will help with the cleaning.
If you want to thicken up the urine before using, find a diabetic, give them 3-4 bags of candy and don't let them have their insulin, in a day or so they will be peeing a very high sugar content urine, which will thicken it up (and if they go into keto-acidosis, that will lower the ph some even more in the urine, which again, will clean the engine even more).

Just make sure that your urine does not have any kidney stones in it, that would be bad.

Or you can use Coca-Cola



Both make as much sense as using ATF. ATF is not designed for ICE, it is designed for transmissions.
Do a bunch of short intervals with The cheapest ENGINE oil you can find, changing the filter frequently.

Or use Auto-Rx.
This stuff used to be talked about all the time here, and I have used it in the past per directions and it worked.


2012 xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k
2010 Santa Fe: PP 0w-20/P1/8k
2007 Vue: VSP 5w-30/EcoGard/OLM
2004 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/TG2/4k
2002 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard/1yr
1994 VT1100c: Peak 15w-40/PSL/5k



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