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Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block #4457996
07/13/17 07:40 AM
07/13/17 07:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline OP
BigD1  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
Need a M12 x 1.25 thread cleaning tap, so I can clean the block head bolt holes on my Toyota pickup . All I can find is ARP 912-0006 thread cleaning tap, and it is ridiculously priced round about $65 to $70.

I can find plenty of regular four flute cutting taps, but I don't think I should be using those to clean holes. Don't want to take a chance of messing up a good block.

Only option I have right now is to cut slots in a head bolt which I think would work, but it's definitely not ideal. Don't want to be cutting slots on bolt threads, and I might end up with messed up threads.

Let me know please what options I have, or where I can get a thread chaser that's reasonably priced. Cleaning tap will have to be long enough to go down in a blind head bolt hole, so a little stubby won't work.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458049
07/13/17 08:41 AM
07/13/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,137
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,137
NE,Ohio
From what I can see you have the normal 4 fluted design starting around 8$ or really expensive ones

If you are careful I dont think you would have a problem with a normal tap.. once its in a few threads.

I have done this many times.. however you must use caution of course.

I would get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-1842ZR-Tap-...ds=m12+1.25+tap

The comments section people are mentioning it worked good on their 22R head.. so I must not be the only one that thinks it is ok to do so.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458082
07/13/17 09:12 AM
07/13/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Might check if you can rent one from a auto parts store or maybe even a local machine shop.

But funny thing about chasing threads... I think it was the practical machinist forum where this question came up and the folks there all agreed that you would just run a cutting tap through the hole. The idea of a tap made specifically for cleaning threads didn't make any sense.

Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458091
07/13/17 09:23 AM
07/13/17 09:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,799
Marshfield , MA
andyd Online content
andyd  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,799
Marshfield , MA
If you're worried, buy another M12 bolt and a nut or 2. Dremel, or hack saw the flutes. Use the nuts to clean up the threads after cutting the flutes. The last head I did, I ran a head bolt in and then blew any debris out of the holes. If the bolts came out without drama, they should go back in likewise. I was taught to push the bolts through cardboard in the way they came out, so the bolt goes back where it came from. How are the intake and exhaust manifolds' hardware?


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Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458138
07/13/17 10:02 AM
07/13/17 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,089
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,089
Upstate NY
You need a bottoming tap not a regular tap.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: Rand] #4458141
07/13/17 10:05 AM
07/13/17 10:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline OP
BigD1  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
Originally Posted By: Rand
From what I can see you have the normal 4 fluted design starting around 8$ or really expensive ones

If you are careful I dont think you would have a problem with a normal tap.. once its in a few threads.

I have done this many times.. however you must use caution of course.

I would get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-1842ZR-Tap-...ds=m12+1.25+tap

The comments section people are mentioning it worked good on their 22R head.. so I must not be the only one that thinks it is ok to do so.


Already had that one in my cart!

If I do end up buying a cutting tap, I think I will buy the Kodiak. It states in the description that it is used for 22RE doing rebuilds.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007BTQJEE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458146
07/13/17 10:10 AM
07/13/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,109
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,109
Waco, TX
Why use a tap at all?

In aerospace, you just do a "running torque"

If the bolt reaches the bottom of the hole without having to apply excessive torque (like, just a couple inch pounds) then leave the threads ALONE.

I've seen too many taps take good metal out of holes that were fine if just left alone. The "run of the mill" taps you can buy usually do this.

"ridiculously priced round about $65 to $70"
You think Toyota made your block threads with an $8 tap?!?!? SHEESH!!

You are dangerously close to making a good situation worse if you go by what you "feel" and not by applying GOOD machinist practices!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458165
07/13/17 10:31 AM
07/13/17 10:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Just cut a a couple of flutes in the head bolt with a dremel if you really need a chaser, if you need to fix slightly buggered threads cut 3 or 4 in a hardened bolt or buy this, its the same thing but high quality. I much prefer using a bolt than a cutting tap if the threads just need a good cleaning, most of the time I just use a plumbers 1/2" or 3/4 pipe cleaning brush with some liquid wrench on bolts 12mm and up twist it down and rotate it not push pull then wash the hole out with brake fluid and an air blow gun.
You can also use a small wire round brush on a dremel and rotate it around on low speed, works fine also.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M12-x-1-25-Spark-Plug-Thread-Forming-Roll-Tap-Cleveland-USA-Harley-Twin-Cam-NOS-/322576544914?hash=item4b1b0f7492:g:emQAAOSwubRXNSpo&vxp=mtr

Edit: As posted if the bolt goes in and goes all the way down the threads, clean it with some brake cleaner an be done with it, leave well enough also.

Last edited by Trav; 07/13/17 10:33 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: andyd] #4458166
07/13/17 10:31 AM
07/13/17 10:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline OP
BigD1  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
Originally Posted By: andyd
How are the intake and exhaust manifolds' hardware?


The only two local automotive machine shops around here are backed up for about two weeks. Can't let this truck sit this long waiting on head work. Head has about 186,000 miles on it, and it's possible that the head has already been straightened one time or another.

I bought a new casting head loaded that will be ready to drop in after I get it apart. I bought an exhaust and intake manifold stud kit from LCE Performance. Mostly use bolts on the intake on stock head, but I am going to install the intake stud kit which will make it easier to hang the manifold plus I won't wear out the threads on the intake side of the head if I have to take it apart again.

Doing the whole top end on my 22RE since I am in that far doing a head gasket plus I have slight chain slap at cold startup after it sits all night. It's got 186,000 miles on the engine. Going to install new water pump, fan clutch, oil pump, timing set, timing cover, and new cylinder head bolts.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: Trav] #4458203
07/13/17 11:01 AM
07/13/17 11:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline OP
BigD1  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
Originally Posted By: Trav
Just cut a a couple of flutes in the head bolt with a dremel if you really need a chaser, if you need to fix slightly buggered threads cut 3 or 4 in a hardened bolt or buy this, its the same thing but high quality. I much prefer using a bolt than a cutting tap if the threads just need a good cleaning, most of the time I just use a plumbers 1/2" or 3/4 pipe cleaning brush with some liquid wrench on bolts 12mm and up twist it down and rotate it not push pull then wash the hole out with brake fluid and an air blow gun.
You can also use a small wire round brush on a dremel and rotate it around on low speed, works fine also.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M12-x-1-25-Spark-Plug-Thread-Forming-Roll-Tap-Cleveland-USA-Harley-Twin-Cam-NOS-/322576544914?hash=item4b1b0f7492:g:emQAAOSwubRXNSpo&vxp=mtr

Edit: As posted if the bolt goes in and goes all the way down the threads, clean it with some brake cleaner an be done with it, leave well enough also.


Yes I am going to leave well enough alone!

Believe I will be OK using a 1/2 plumbers heavy duty fitting brush with some Liquid Wrench per your suggestion. Will keep it simple and cheap, and it should do a good job.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-2-in-Heavy-Duty-Fitting-Brush-313272/100142649


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458228
07/13/17 11:33 AM
07/13/17 11:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
That's the one, it works great, just a couple of turns and your done.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458277
07/13/17 12:31 PM
07/13/17 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,822
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,822
Columbus,Nebraska
A M12X1.25 bottoming tap should be all you need.Go very easy and use a cutting oil. And use the smallest wrench you have on the tap. You may be able to find a chasing tap in the required size but I don't think you need it.

Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458510
07/13/17 04:07 PM
07/13/17 04:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,381
Chicago IL USA
scurvy Offline
scurvy  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,381
Chicago IL USA
It sounds like you're just trying to clean up the threads. Would a back tap work? It's a collapsable thread chasing tap that you insert into the bottom of a tapped hole (where the threads are usually not boogered up), expand the tap to mate with the threads, then turn it backwards to clean out and refine any of the threads that need some improvement.

https://smile.amazon.com/Back-Tap-12-Millimeter-Reverse-Re-Thread-Tool/dp/B000NOX3KW

?


You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

06 VW Golf TDI: Shell Rotella T6 5w40, HU726/2x, EaBP90
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Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: BigD1] #4458583
07/13/17 05:27 PM
07/13/17 05:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Why not a re-threading tap if all you're doing is cleaning threads ?



https://store.snapon.com/Rethreading-Tap...t--P651935.aspx

Re: Thread cleaning tap--M12 x 1.25 for block [Re: scurvy] #4458674
07/13/17 06:53 PM
07/13/17 06:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline OP
BigD1  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
Originally Posted By: scurvy
It sounds like you're just trying to clean up the threads. Would a back tap work? It's a collapsable thread chasing tap that you insert into the bottom of a tapped hole (where the threads are usually not boogered up), expand the tap to mate with the threads, then turn it backwards to clean out and refine any of the threads that need some improvement.

https://smile.amazon.com/Back-Tap-12-Millimeter-Reverse-Re-Thread-Tool/dp/B000NOX3KW

?


Not sure about that type because I have never used one.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
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