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Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra #4456976
07/12/17 06:49 AM
07/12/17 06:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
flinter Offline OP
flinter  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
Hi,

I own a 2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition with just 2800 miles. Just thinking ahead of course, when should the automatic transmission fluid be changed? I know the new models no longer
have an ATF dipstick and supposedly its a "sealed system" that is maintenance free. But I feel uneasy about that.

I previously owned a 2005 Elantra and I did the first ATF change at 30,000 miles, but evidently that is old school thinking now in 2017? So would changing it at 30.000 miles be way overkill these days just like 3000 OCI's are?

I ask this because my intention is to own this car long term, 12+ years, which for me, should be up to around 145,000 miles or so.

Thanks!

Last edited by flinter; 07/12/17 06:52 AM.

2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition
Purchased new with 10 miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4456980
07/12/17 06:55 AM
07/12/17 06:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,819
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,819
New York
I still believe in changing ATF about every 30K, especially the FF.
I've found that after the first few changes (say 90K) I'm not as concerned and will go longer between changes because there is less junk in the pan.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457035
07/12/17 07:55 AM
07/12/17 07:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 613
DFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 613
DFW
I'm pretty curious about this as well. I have been debating doing it at 30k or 50k, and if SP3 is still the best option for these transmissions. I hear lots of positive things about AMSOIL ATF, but I don't think I've heard of anyone running it in these Hyundai trannys. I'll probably go conservative and change it at 30k, but I'm interested to hear other's opinions on this.

Last edited by JustN89; 07/12/17 07:57 AM.
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457048
07/12/17 08:15 AM
07/12/17 08:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
I change the ATF at about 10-15k miles and so 60k intervals afterwards.
Old school or not, clutch packs shed the most material during the initial break in. Getting rid of this contamination early is a prudent thing to do if long term ownership is planned.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457069
07/12/17 08:33 AM
07/12/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
flinter Offline OP
flinter  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
10,0000 miles?? Seems like way overkill to me and a waste of money.


2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition
Purchased new with 10 miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457077
07/12/17 08:39 AM
07/12/17 08:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
I think it was Molakula that posted a study showing that a very high percentage, around 80%-90% I think, of break in material was generated during the first 10k miles in conventional automatic transmissions.
No gut feelings, superstitions, etc, but fact based logic.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457079
07/12/17 08:43 AM
07/12/17 08:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,918
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,918
Florida, Cape Coral
If you feel you must it in order to feel good, then I would change it at ~75,000 miles flinter, since your selling at 145,000 or so. Ed

Last edited by Eddie; 07/12/17 08:44 AM.

CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457087
07/12/17 08:47 AM
07/12/17 08:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
NE Ohio
knerml Offline
knerml  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
NE Ohio
Check your owners manual. I'll bet it states to use Hyundai or Hyundai approved fluid.


2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457092
07/12/17 08:52 AM
07/12/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,003
Canuck living in California
Sorry, it was Jim Allen that posted the study and it was 75% of contaminants.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3068967

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
According to Abe Khalil and John Eleftherakis, two engineer/tribologists who have been studying automatic transmissions and ATF since the '80s, 75 percent of the harmful debris generated in an automatic over its operating life comes from the manufacturing process and break in. After sampling the oil in thousands of automatics in service, they found that the average trans with 70K or more miles that has not had a service contains approximately 263 mg/l (milligrams per liter) of contaminants, 90 percent of which is metallic. Of those metallic particles, 51 percent are ferrous (iron/steel), 21 percent copper, 11 percent aluminum and 7 percent lead. The particles range in size from 5 to 80 microns, about 82 percent of them larger than 5 microns. Yes the trans has a filter, but the best on the market today filters at 80 microns nominal and many cheap ones, or older filters are at 100 microns, or larger. Some of the screens in older transmissions are 150-200 microns and all they get are the "boulders.

Long term, the metallic particles cause wear on the pump vanes/housing and on bearings and bushings, but valves don't like debris either and that's where the shorter term problems can come from. A chunk of debris can score the bore of a valve and cause it to leak, or jam outright. I don't have to tell you what a metallic particle will do to a rubber seal or o-ring. With the advent of electronic valves, a new problem was created. What is an electronically controlled valve?? An electromagnet! Magnets attract ferrous particles, so the iron in the trans is gravitating to those areas and causing valve malfunctions to occur even sooner. Once the valves start to malfunction, you get reduced pressures or delayed shifts, all of which cause extra wear on the clutches. Often it's so slow and imperceptible that the driver doesn't feel it until it gets really bad. That might be at 100K miles, so he says, "Oh well" and has the trans rebuilt when with some care, that trans might have outlasted the car. Sometimes there is so much manufacturing grunge (or remanufacturing... rebuilt trans have the same trouble) in the trans that it fails under warranty (very common).

Thing is, if you can keep the contaminants under control, either by changing the oil or improved external filtration (the internal filters are low efficiency) you can greatly extend the reliability of the trans and the life of the oil. I interviewed Abe Khalil for a project and he said the first thing he does with a new car of his own is change the trans oil and filter (within about 5K miles). According to him, that eliminates 90 percent of the potential problems down the road.

A normal UOA is not a great way to measure contaminants in an automatic overall because the spectrometer used to test for metals only "sees" the particles under about 5 microns. The insolubles is merely a conglomeration of the stuff that settles out in a centrifuge. Both of these results can be reasonably accurately interpreted by a skilled and experienced person well enough to make some recommendations but it's still a "blurry snapshot" at best. Better to have a particle count done if you really need to know... but when Blackstone recommends an oil change, take heed. To clarify, I don't recommend the exgtra-cost particle count route unless you are especially pedantic or deep in knowledge-seeking mode. A UOA, interpreted by a pro, is usually sufficient.

Let's go back to the 75 percent thing above. Once the initial break-in has occurred, the transmission's internal production of contaminants (wear particles) slows way down in most cases, so the followup oil changes can be lots longer. The exceptions could be particularly hard worked units or those where the oil has been allowed to break down from age or stress and wear increases from lack of lubrication.

I'll still get on my soapbox here and shill for external filtration. A simple cooler line filter (google Magnefine as one easy example) can extend trans oil life as well as trans life itself. Abe Khalil quoted me a generic optimal ISO cleanliness code for ATF (that's a number you'd need to get from a particle count) of <19/16 (I'll leave it to you to research the two and three digit ISO codes if you don't understand the reference). It's achievable easily by external filtration or by oil changes, but to maintain that level of cleanliness without filtration it might require dumping oil that's essentially in good shape but for a high level of contamination. Remember that every ISO code number jump is up to a 50% increase in the level of contamination.

How quickly an AT dirties it's oil in normal use to the 19/16 level, after the beak-in process is complete, is highly variable according to the unit.

So, bottom line: For optimal trans life, either add an external filter right away or change the oil within about 5K miles. Updated info on the 5K stat would be that the AT mfrs. have really cleaned up the manufacturing process in the past few years and eliminated a lot of that built-in grunge. You still have break-in to contend with but I am told even that has improved. I haven't talked to Khalil in a few years and don't know what he would say right this minute, so I am sticking with 5K as a "perfect world" recommendation for those like me who are pedantic. Bet-hedgers... try about 15K, then do 60-80K intervals after (or according to h OEM or if in severe service). Overall, an external filter, well and correctly installed, hit's all the bases and allows you to run the factory fill for what is essentially a "full" OCI safe from high contaminant levels. You can then base the OCI on oil condition rather than contaminant level (and those are really best viewed as two separate categories).


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457097
07/12/17 08:58 AM
07/12/17 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
flinter Offline OP
flinter  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
New Jersey
I can imagine taking my 2017 Elantra to the dealer with ONLY 10K and ask for ATF change! They probably would laugh or tell you I am wasting my money!


2017 Hyundai Elantra SE Value Edition
Purchased new with 10 miles
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457121
07/12/17 09:25 AM
07/12/17 09:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
midwest
JamesBond Offline
JamesBond  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
midwest
I drain or pump out a pan-full of trans fluid every year-2 years in the cars I service, and I would do the same if I had your car. From newer cars to old beaters. Some get factory fluid, some get generic dex/merc. At a cost of $10-25 and a few minutes of my time i wouldn't call it overkill.

(These cars all have drain plugs or dip sticks)

Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: KrisZ] #4457147
07/12/17 09:59 AM
07/12/17 09:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I change the ATF at about 10-15k miles and so 60k intervals afterwards.
Old school or not, clutch packs shed the most material during the initial break in. Getting rid of this contamination early is a prudent thing to do if long term ownership is planned.
I 100% agree.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: Eddie] #4457363
07/12/17 02:09 PM
07/12/17 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,961
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,961
MTL, CANADA
Originally Posted By: Eddie
If you feel you must it in order to feel good, then I would change it at ~75,000 miles flinter, since your selling at 145,000 or so. Ed


Yep this +1.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Transmission fluid 2017 Elantra [Re: flinter] #4457513
07/12/17 05:09 PM
07/12/17 05:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,306
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,306
USA
What does Hyundai say to do? They do have that long 100k warranty, so you have to do what they tell you to do for 10 years!

Maxlife ATF will probably be fine in it smile


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